Going 2 rail with RC control.

Congratulations! I went 2 rail over 10 years ago and I mostly don't regret it. The only thing I don't like is sometimes it requires larger curves (how much larger if at all depends on the equipment that is being run) than 3 rail but I would rather be a little limited in my locomotive choices than be forced to use a center third rail. No offense to the 3 rail guys, many of whom are excellent modelers. 

But what about all that work you did adding a N scale center rail to Atlas 2 rail track? You're just going to rip that up? I have to say it was one of the best looking 3 rail track systems I have ever seen. Is that battery pack and electronics going to fit under the tender? They look a little too tall. I am not criticizing just curious. 

Thanks Phil,

The electronics were just stuffed on top of one another for the test. It is too tall. I will mount the decoder/receiver and sound card on their sides up inside the tender and it all fits.

There are just so many really fine older brass locos I want that are available today at great prices. Rc install cost about the same as Tmcc  once one has transmitters and their are a greater varieties of sounds available for steam.

Thank you for the compliment on my 3rail scale track, but it is so **** tedious to do, everything has to come to a halt to accomplish laying. and modifying turnouts.

Ron H

That looks like a very nice train.

Years ago I considered staying in 3 rail and handlaying the center rail on Atlas 2 rail track. Thankfully a friend who was a three railer threw cold water in my face. He recommended that if I was going to go through all of that effort I might as well switch to 2 rail.

If I had not already wired my whole railroad in a bullet proof manner the RC looks like a great option. I know a local proto 48er who has been using RC for 5 years or so and his works great. I think you are going to do very well in 2 rail.

At any rate, I hope to see your progess and thanks for showing what you've done so far.

I think RC Battery is the way of the future. Congrats.

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

I think RC Battery is the way of the future. Congrats.

Simon

Agree. Especially for 3-railers who would rather not have to convert their locos to 2-rail. And can keep their too-sharp curves...

You're going to do very well in 2R, Ron. 

I look forward to following your progress.

Ron, that sounds like a well thought out plan. I assume that when it comes to rolling stock you will use scale wheels and unmodified 2 rail turnouts? 

I agree RC is a good option for someone starting out in O or someone with a small amount of locomotives but for me to retrofit everything I have it would be too costly. I wish you good luck and definitely keep us posted on your progress. 

Simon Winter posted:

I think RC Battery is the way of the future. Congrats.

Simon

How does that work with computer control, Simon?

 I'm fortunate in that there are only 3 diesel sets to convert, all customized Santa Fe. One is F7 Atsf freight from 3rd rail, a cinch to convert. An ABA Alco PA  and an AA emd e6. They were lionel that were detailed with hand crafted fixed pilots and a lot of other stuff. I am going to make new frames and probably use central locomotive drives. A long term project. A NYC Mikado and a brass J3 Hudson. 2 brass Atsf locos already in the conversion process and am bidding on a KTM Atsf 2 rail 2-10-4 tomorrow and really want a 3rd rail Santa Fe mountain. So this was a good point to convert before I go any further.

Tonight started to engineer the wiring for the RC. The motor wires to the decoder will pass through scale water pipe between the tender and the locomotive.

The decoder is insulated on the back with Gorilla tape and then thick heavy duty two sided tape into the tender shell and the sound card will be done the same.

Ron your doing exactly what I have thought about doing, I am doing DCC outdoors but if it starts giving me to much trouble I will be doing that.  I am drooling over the Santa Fe 2-8-2 I hope to get one someday. We seem to have the same taste in locos.

Best Regards

Robert in Kansas

Ron H posted:

Thanks Phil,

The electronics were just stuffed on top of one another for the test. It is too tall. I will mount the decoder/receiver and sound card on their sides up inside the tender and it all fits.

There are just so many really fine older brass locos I want that are available today at great prices. Rc install cost about the same as Tmcc  once one has transmitters and their are a greater varieties of sounds available for steam.

Thank you for the compliment on my 3rail scale track, but it is so **** tedious to do, everything has to come to a halt to accomplish laying. and modifying turnouts.

Ron H

 

Ron. This is why I just bought my first 2 rail locomotive this week. Laid all that beautiful track on my module and couldn't bare to put a third rail down. It's just too tedious to do the code 148 turnouts. I am very interested in the battery installs too. I will be following closely. Good work sir

TJ,

I really wish I weren't so fixed on the look of the tracks, but I am.  Interestingly  I ordered some miniature Lipo batteries from Hobbyking that should make the rc install easier, especially for diesels. Go to RGSRR hobbies.com to see some cool picks of diesel installations.

Ron

Ron H posted:

TJ,

I really wish I weren't so fixed on the look of the tracks, but I am. 

Ron

Once I laid 2R track next to 3R I couldn't bare high profile rails and an extra rail anymore.  As Erik said, "Jedi Side of the Force" is awesome.

This is in no way negative to 3R stuff-I still own a lot of it and I'm glad there are folks who enjoy 3R.  It's just another side of the hobby.  It's just not for me anymore.

When I found myself weathering everything, adding KD couplers, designing a layout with minimum 70" radius curves, and doing something similar to your converted 3R track, I saw the light.  Plus, I'm focusing on modeling a specific era-seemed like a natural transition to 2R.

This is a big reason why I can't motivate myself to finish the FEF.

Good start Ron!

I've been running BPRC for 2 years now and have zero problems with the electronics.

I originally pulled out the middle rail of the Gargraves/Ross track, but for the past 3 weeks I've been planning a 2-rail layout and building 2-rail code 148 #6 turnouts.  So far I have 3 of 19 turnouts built, they're not that hard to do with some common hand tools, Dremel, spike pliers, and a some patience.  Price of ready-made turnouts can be from $75-$150, I figure building my own will be around $25.  I have the time being retired and would rather spend it than the $$$.

Hopefully within the not too distant future I'll have a layout looking like this:

Need to make 16 more of these:

Thanks to Jay Criswell (Right-O-Way) and several others I was able to convince myself to give this a go.

I plan on keeping the hi-rail wheels on my engines and rolling stock for now.  Both hi-rail and 2-rail wheels work fine on these turnouts.  I did test them by putting lengths of Micro-Engineering track on each end and running various steam locos thru them.  I may eventually replace the rolling stock wheels with 2-rail but that's down the road.

Bob,

The turn outs look awesome! Great work!

Bob, the turnouts are outstanding. After I finish with the 7 atlas 7.5s, much easier now, then I will build the rest as you are. Aaron I'm glad you are back to work on the FEF. All those beautiful locomotives you've purchased deserve some running room.

I am working on laying track while waiting for the new batteries and some tiny magnets. I also ordered some caboose industries ground throws for the turnouts.

I will be very excited to get back to scenery and running some trains on my little railroad. The detail that Norm Charbonneau incorporates is kinda my goal.

Ron

Beginning the removal of third rail on turnouts. So smooth through the turnouts.

Very nice Ron.

Robert

So,  the begged question is, where are you locating the antenna?  It has to be outside the brass shells.

rdunniii posted:

So,  the begged question is, where are you locating the antenna?  It has to be outside the brass shells.

Probably through the water hatches with the antenna painted black and laid down insulated on the tender shell. I have 50 plus years of RC experience. I'll figure something out.

I run RC on our large 2R o scale club layout and the only issue is we used aluminum screen for the scenery underlayment and well . . . . . . It works but you are not in control in the tunnels!  RC is really fun, wait until you try double heading, that is really cool!  Russ

I'm looking forward to it.

I sort of figured this was inevitable, knowing how skilled you guys were at modeling.  It has to be tough, having perfect models running on disguised Lionel track.

How about the bell cord for an antenna?  Or maybe re-do those tender deck handrails with insulated standoffs?  Do you have serious matching and polarization problems?

I am kind of cheating - my giant AC-8 is going to get R /C batteries/ Tsunami sound or something equivalent, but I plan on learning from you guys.

Bare is without clothing.  Bear is sort of an endurance term.  Or an animal.

Bob,

I'm really not sure about the antenna placement. There is slight chance due to the close range in my train room the receiver will pick up the signal inside the shell. You might take a look at Phoenix sound modules they are programmable for a bunch of steam and work really well.

Ron

 Very interesting install , have you thought of battery packs in trailing boxcar?

That would allow longer run times and more room in smaller tenders for sound gear.

I believe Airwire offer smaller electronics than the one you are installing.

I've seen batt / airwire installed in on3 DRGW k36 mikes

 I am not sure if smaller airwires can handle  O scale amperage loads

dave

Ron,

I don't believe I've had any issues with signals getting to the boards, and I have 5 brass Williams/Samhongsa steam engines BPRC equipped, the others are die-cast/plastic (steam) or plastic (diesel).

My boards are all 2.4Ghz, so maybe 900Mhz boards might have a problem, don't know.

2000Mah batteries give me 2-1/2 hours run time, I can't imagine wanting much more than that.  My smallest engine so far is a MTH RailKing Imperial USRA 0-6-0, had to use a 2200Mah 11.1v, LiPo battery for that so it would fit inside the tender.

Most of my engines have 12v can motors in them, but a couple have 15v (Lionel 4-8-2) motors, so with a 12v battery the top end speed is low but adequate.

You can always go lower on the batteries amperage ratings (say 1300Mah) for a smaller battery pack, but your run time will be less.  Most small engines are switchers so it may not matter if you only get 1-1/2 hours of run time, unless all you do is switching.

I want ZERO wires to the track so I also installed charging jacks in all my engines.

Dave and Bob,

I appreciate the input. I will be acquiring much smaller AirWire receivers in the Future. I had two first generation  big receivers in my 1/20.3 Accucrafts. the small batteries I've ordered are 3 cell 1000 mah at 11.1 volts. One goes in the Mikado and will probably be appropriate for its prototype tractive effort and speed. The second goes in the modern PRB ATSF Hudson to see if the big drivers can make speed with a 10 to 15 car heavyweight passenger car trains.

The battery life is not a great issue because the trains make about 5 laps around a 70 foot mainline and then the locos are changed out and cars substituted for continuation to St Louis or north to Chicago. Two Mikados NYC and Atsf do the same laps with modest freights supplying the junction and removing emptys.

The big diesel multi units will have larger 3000 mah , probably 14.8 volt batteries to power 4 to 6 can motors per unit. Each unit has at least one dummy to for the larger battery.

Bob, I was making the tender shells with magnetic release to get at the batteries to charge. I would be very interested in seeing how you did the charging jacks.

Ron

You guys are the pioneers.   What you do now will probably drive the industry.

Give some consideraton to laying out your favorite solution, with sources and approximate prices.  I bet OST would love to publish your progress.

Ron,

I remove the original coal loads and drill holes for the on/off switch and charging jack.

Here's a photo of one of my RailKing 2-8-0:

I used a piece of black foam to make a new coal load, which can be easily lifted out.

Here's a photo showing 3 of 4 engines with the foam coal load in place:

#411 had a real coal load but I've since changed it to foam.

I mounted the on/off switch underneath the tender of my Williams 4-8-8 N&W J, between the trucks.

I pull out the foam coal load and plug the charger into the jack you see in the photo.

I really want to try making a water spout that disguises the charging unit, like this:

The spring-loaded wheel will make the wire retractable and hopefully not so noticeable.

Bob,

Thank you, great work.

Ron