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I picked up my H7 and managed to get it in the house and up to the train room without going through customs and a congressional hearing about budget from the other person living here.  Pictures below.

The good: it arrived in perfect shape.  Everything works and works very well.  I run conventionally with a ZW-L and that combination is superb: this will match or beat any other loco I have in slow speed smoothness - about 7 - 8 scale mph will pulling adequately and smoothly around curves, etc.  Great sound - what I've come to expect from Legacy lately.  Above average whistle in my opinion - very good "big loco" whistle sound.  Nicely detailed cab.  And fantastic looks.   Lots of great details.  I LOVE added-on equipment like pipes and pumps and who-knows what and this has it in spades and spades.  Fantastic.  The loco, set up, measures 30" from end of coupler to end of coupler (Vision Challenger and Legacy Yellowstone are both 32, Legacy Allegheny 31.75, The Legacy mallet considerable smaller.  It wears its length well: looks fantastic when moving!!!  Smoke works very well (at least for the twenty seconds before I turned it off).

The Bad: front boiler stick out, which I expected but which is, well, ridiculous to look at and annoying frankly.  But this is a scale articulated loco - to be expected.  See the photo: the inside edge of the boiler front is between the middle and outer rails on a 72" curve.

Worse that bad - nearly unacceptable.  This is the most difficult locomotive I have, or have ever seen, to set up on the track.  Frnakly, I was close to putting it back in the box.   It took half an hour and many tries before I got it to sit straight so it would go around 72" curves. I set up up on a straight section or track - that might be a mistake, might be better to set it up on a curve.  Anyway, it looked to be on the rails right, with every set of wheels with its flanges down and inside, etc, andit seemed true and level, but it de-railed (the rear flanged set of drivers on the front set flipped out over the outer rail) going around curves, particularly when going backwards.  I eventually got it to work but it did the same thing again when I took it up to turn over and flipped the smoke switch and then return it to the rails and got it down, again, looking like it was on the rails correctly, even in close examination.

    to get it to work each time, I havd to lift the front of the loco untilthe front set of drivers and wheels is hanging free of the track, and then "wobble" the front driver set back and forth to the maximum extent possible to sort of free it in its back and forth movement - I can't explain better  . . . .  Each time, it was at first catching on something the preventing it turning all the way into a left and turn, and when I pulled the driver set down and wobbled it back and forth that got it to swing free - I could feel it.  Only then would go around curves well enough.  (I repeated this whole thing two more times - taking it off, putting it back, and it did it each time.  Apparently, I have to do this whenever I set up mine. 

    But once set up right, it did chug nobly and wonderfully around my big loop, 140 feet around all 72" and 84" curves with a couple of 72" switchbacks, but no switches, and four places where the track angles up or down slightly into or out of slopes, maximum of 2.5%.  It looked great doing so.  It sounded great.

    And then, as planned, it went on the shelf.  I bought this knowing it would have massive boiler stick-out, making it just too big to run all the time, but I wanted an H7 and now have one.  I'll probably run it once and year, and hopefully remember about how to set it up - just in case, though,  I wrote myself a note and taped it to the bottom of the loco.    

 

 

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without going through customs and a congressional hearing about budget

 

I have a box in the back of my car, I picked up at the Post office this morning and I am trying to figure out my line when I walk in the door tonight...  Ha Ha.  My wife is great, but every so often I will get the "When did you get that.. Hmmm..."

 

front boiler stick out, which I expected but which is, well, ridiculous to look at and annoying frankly.  But this is a scale articulated loco - to be expected.

 

I saw the picture and it sticks out a lot.  Yes, ridiculous.  It is a scale model, but is that the way those engines traveled down the rails in their real life days?  Which would bring me to the question about O72 which is huge for us in the modeling arena but what is the turning radius on typical real world track?  I could probably look that up but... What would be a "true" scale modeling curve in our hobby?

 

 

Originally Posted by RickO:

"Its great!........ No its not!......., Well I was just going to put it on a shelf anyway..."

Yeah, but again, I knew going in that it would look strange and that I would not be a runner: on my layout with its many 72" curves, locos longer than about 27 inches just don't look realistic enough for my eye.  But still, I want "one of each" of all the big articulated and turbine locos from the 1950s on my shelves.  Love to look at 'em.  And the H7 is won of the best to look at - very industrial, heavy duty look to it. . 

 

And in fairness to it Lionel, once I get it set up so it runs well, it never subsequently seems to go wrong.  I played with it some before going on the shelf, and it behaved nicely.  I had it pull nothing heavier than 15 or so scale reefers and a caboose, and ran it no faster than maybe a scale 45 mph (at which speed it looks almost dangerous) but even all load, up and down, didn't upset it. 

Originally Posted by Paul Kallus:

I had an articulated engine that derailed on curves. It turned out the "thing" that pivots under the boiler was installed backwards. Sorry I cannot be more specific as this was some time ago, but its worth a look.

Something like that happened to me, too. I can't remember which engine it was, but I had it apart and the piece connecting the boiler to the front engine would go in either way and I couldn't remember which way to install it. I got it in wrong (backwards, upside down, I forget exactly what I did wrong) and I had a similar problem with the engine not making curves. As I recall it was a channel that was screwed on to the boiler, and a pin mounted on the front engine slid from side to side in it. The slot was T-shaped and the pin would hang up in the T if I installed it wrong. 

I found this on Wikipedia:

 

Minimum curve radii for railroads are governed by the speed operated and by the mechanical ability of the rolling stock to adjust to the curvature. In North America, equipment for unlimited interchange between railroad companies are built to accommodate 350-foot (106.7 m) radius (16 degrees 26 minutes) or sharper, but normally 410-foot (125.0 m) radius (14 degrees) is used as a minimum, as some freight cars are handled by special agreement between railroads that cannot take the sharper curvature. For handling of long freight trains, a minimum 717-foot (218.5 m) radius (8 degrees) is preferred.

 

Bear in mind these are radius.  So at 350' radius curves the 1:48 would be o444", at 410' the 1:48 would be o520", at 717' curve the 1:48 would be o910"  Those are 37', 43' and 75' diameter circles.  Ouch...

 

Please check my math.  Did I do this correctly? 

 

Rick - Great Video.  Thanks.....

 

I have the earlier JLC C&O H-7. I've never had any problem with setting it up on the track and having it derail. Just have to make sure all the wheels are on the track properly. At the time I bought it I was using O63 track and of course the engine is rated for O72. The limiting factor was the spring loaded steam exhaust pipes going up into the bottom of the smokebox. These move back and forth in a slot in the bottom of the smokebox as the engine goes around a curve. I cut these off just below the smokebox and the engine successfully negotiated the O63 curves with absolutely no derailment problems (of course the overhang was even more ridiculous). Never had any derailment problems.

 

On this newer version, what drivers are the traction tires on? On the JLC version, the rear engine traction tires are on the first set of drivers, right behind all the valve gear. They are a real bear to change. This engine has tended to be hard on traction tires.

 

Ken

Last edited by kanawha

Lee, although the mere thought of using one may offend some people, I find that the Lionel 'Railer' can be very handy for setting some locomotives (And even some wagons.) on to the track.  

Due to traction tyres gripping the rails, it's sometimes easier to pull the railer along under the locomotive than to push the locomotive down the ramp. But even then, it does help in getting all of the wheels aligned quickly and easily.

Screen Shot 2013-06-29 at 09.58.58

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Originally Posted by N.Q.D.Y.:

Lee, although the mere thought of using one may offend some people, I find that the Lionel 'Railer' can be very handy for setting some locomotives (And even some wagons.) on to the track.  

Due to traction tyres gripping the rails, it's sometimes easier to pull the railer along under the locomotive than to push the locomotive down the ramp. But even then, it does help in getting all of the wheels aligned quickly and easily.

Screen Shot 2013-06-29 at 09.58.58

Nicole, thanks.  good suggestion, but . . .

 

I have two different "railers" for O gauge (great for when you are putting, say, 15 cars on the track all at once) and tried both.  The H7 is big and rather difficult to use with them, but with difficulty you can use either to slide it onto the rails. I tried that at first.   Neither helped. 

 

As I said, the problem seems to be something that catches or snags up front above the front end of the front driver set, and that has to be moved out of the way once the loco is on the rails, in the manner I explained, and then stays out of the way.  Looking at the loco I think it is a set of tiny wires going to something right under the stack, but I'm not sure as I can't both look at them from underneath and have it on the rails, too. 

Lee, I certainly enjoyed Your Candid Review of Lionel's new H7 UP Articulated Legacy Locomotive. (I would like to see pictures of Your layout) Thank You. Now, did You get the Legacy Big Boy Engine.? How does the Swing Compare, if You have the Big Boy? Mine is do in Tuesday and I am excited. My curves are 096--0120..I have very little 072. I use Atlas-0, Ross, Gargraves track. Thanks Again..

Last edited by leapinlarry
Originally Posted by Wood:

I found this on Wikipedia:

 

Minimum curve radii for railroads are governed by the speed operated and by the mechanical ability of the rolling stock to adjust to the curvature. In North America, equipment for unlimited interchange between railroad companies are built to accommodate 350-foot (106.7 m) radius (16 degrees 26 minutes) or sharper, but normally 410-foot (125.0 m) radius (14 degrees) is used as a minimum, as some freight cars are handled by special agreement between railroads that cannot take the sharper curvature. For handling of long freight trains, a minimum 717-foot (218.5 m) radius (8 degrees) is preferred.

 

Bear in mind these are radius.  So at 350' radius curves the 1:48 would be o444", at 410' the 1:48 would be o520", at 717' curve the 1:48 would be o910"  Those are 37', 43' and 75' diameter circles.  Ouch...

 

Please check my math.  Did I do this correctly? 

 

Rick - Great Video.  Thanks.....

 

I get O-175 (14.58 feet), O-205 (17.08 feet) and O-358.5 (29.88 feet). 36" radius
(O-72) is 144 foot radius scaled up to 1:1.

if you want a general formula for converting radius <--> deg curvature...

 

Radius (in feet) = R = 50 / (sin (D/2)) or
Degree of curvature = D = 2 arcsin (50/R)

a general formula for scale models accounting for both scale (s) and expressing the radius (r) as more manageable inches yields:

Degree of curvature = d = 2 arcsin ((600*s)/r)

for O scale (s = 1/48) & converting to the more recognizable diameter measurement, the formula becomes:

degree of curvature = deg = 2 arcsin (25/dia)

diameter (in inches) = dia = 25 / (sin (deg/2))

I get O-175 (14.58 feet), O-205 (17.08 feet) and O-358.5 (29.88 feet). 36" radius (O-72) is 144 foot radius scaled up to 1:1.

if you want a general formula for converting radius <--> deg curvature...

Radius (in feet) = R = 50 / (sin (D/2)) or Degree of curvature = D = 2 arcsin (50/R)
a general formula for scale models accounting for both scale (s) and expressing the radius (r) as more manageable inches yields:
Degree of curvature = d = 2 arcsin ((600*s)/r)
for O scale (s = 1/48) & converting to the more recognizable diameter measurement, the formula becomes:
degree of curvature = deg = 2 arcsin (25/dia)
diameter (in inches) = dia =25 / (sin (deg/2))



That is sooo way beyond my math skills...  I really appreciate the help and now know who to turn to....  Thanks

Last edited by Rich Melvin

Originally Posted by Wood:

That is soooo way beyond my math skills...

 

D = curvature in degrees (6°, 10°, etc)

d = track diameter in inches (31", 54", 72", etc)


two trig functions, actually only one and it's inverse are all you need.


on the calculator, SIN = the sine function,

hitting the "Inv" box first (at least that's how you do it on the Microsoft default calculator) will turn the SIN button into the ARCSIN (Inverse SINE) function.


the argument of a SINE function here will be in degrees and the result is always a fraction less than one.  (eg: the SINE of 45° = 0.707)


the argument of an ARC or Inverse SINE function will always be a fraction less than one with the result expressed in degrees.  (eg: the ARCSINE of 0.707 = 45°)


if you have the track diameter and want to know degree of curvature...

curvature in degrees = D = 2 arcsin (25/d)


or if you want to calculate the track diameter for any degree of curvature...

diameter in inches = d = 25 / (sin (D/2))


-------------

example: d = 72" (O72 track)

 

D = 2 arcsin (25/d)

D = 2 arcsin (25/72) = 2 arcsin (0.3472)

 

  arcsin (0.3472) = 20.3°

 

D = 2 x 20.3° = 40.6° curve

 

-------------

example: D = 8°

 

d = 25 / (sin (D/2))

d = 25 / sin (8/2)) = 25 / sin (4)


  sin 4° = (0.06976)


d = 25 / (0.06976) = 358" = O358 curve


math is fun!

cheers...gary

 

 

Last edited by overlandflyer
Originally Posted by PRR2818:
My brain hurts!

here's a thought, though...  how many more of you would have paid attention in class if trig was applied to model train layouts rather than calculating the circumference of the earth by measuring your shadow or even caring how high the flagpole in front of the school was?

 

i wish my HS math teacher was still around so i could admit i was wrong when i sat there in class thinking about where or when the *&^#$% i would use this stuff again.

Well I just got mine H7 UP AND THIS IS ONE SUPER FINE LEGACY ENGINE. It is no more difficult to Place on the track than the Big Boy, Visions Challenger, The Alleghany or other Articulateds. We had a problem at first until we saw the large rubber packing piece. Once removed it Ran Flawlessly. My curves are 091 to 096 to 099 to 0120. The detail surprised me. It's a WOW. IN Legacy, the sounds are super. Thanks for Your Review. Larry.

Last edited by leapinlarry
Originally Posted by leapinlarry:

Well I just got mine H7 UP AND THIS IS ONE SUPER FINE LEGACY ENGINE. It is no more difficult to Place on the track than the Big Boy, Visions Challenger, The Alleghany or other Articulateds. We had a problem at first until we saw the large rubber packing piece. Once removed it Ran Flawlessly. My curves are 091 to 096 to 099 to 0120. The detail surprised me. It's a WOW. IN Legacy, the sounds are super. Thanks for Your Review. Larry.

Mine is still fussier to put on the track than my other big scale articulated locos.  It is the two side-by-side pins that project up from the front driver-set "raft" (they are just about right under the stack).  They can catch on a wire or something up inside the boiler.  I have to maneuver them up and to the side of that wire as I put it on the track.  Once that is done, it is one very sweet running, slow moving and smooth loco.  Still too much boiler stick out, but you can't have everything.   I love it.  

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