Gravity pull on 13 car grain train

Can you provide an email address concerning conversation from 3Rail to 2Rail.  My address is seoddojr@gmail.com

 

i can't add any tech. information to your quest as I have the same concerns as my layout is nearly 40'X11.5'. i can go wall to wall and get a few more radii out of the turn but it looks so not natural running so close to the walls.

I did watch a youtube video this morning, one of the few times I have looked on the service for layouts as few 2 rail O scale gets posted. It showed so much of the same train and I counted the cars at 27. It the "UP on the Parley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMn42kbtQQ

In that piece were some longer passenger car shots with the car swing protruding out over the tracks meaning to me the radii tight. So I put 2 n 2 together at least 27 cars and engine be about 30' my layout would be small in that context as  soon as the train hits the turn the last car is hittng the straight. It appears the parley has no problems with that amount of cars. Also, the weight of the cars is being pulled at the near lowest spot on the cars near the wheel sets so it doesn't pull the cars over. Years ago in HO I did make a car pulling improvement by exchanging out all my factory wheels for  upgraded metal ones which improved the rollability greatly. i don't think this is a problem with Atlas's cars as they are metal to begin with.

Phill  

Not sure if this is an answer, but  054 curves,  2 of the 4 curves always involved at once along with 22 ft. of straight.

only way for it complete the loop without couplers opening,is in a 2 engine mu, that just happened to be legacy engines.  I have to use a Kodak easy share.

 

 

That's actually a complicated problem. Gravity isn't really the issue unless there's a grade involved. What's really the issue is if you have enough flanges on your curve to counteract the tension of the rest of the train to prevent string-lining. I've run 16-car grain trains (Atlas PS 4427) through a 36" radius curve with scale wheels on the four lead cars and had no problems. I think you should be OK operating on a 45" radius (O-90). Additional load would come into play if the curve is on or at the top of a grade. You would potentially have problems, though if you want to use 45" diameter(O-45) curves as that would be a pretty long train for such a sharp curve even with 3-rail flanges.

 

Hope this helps.

Hi

Just a little further input, I have a section on my layout (2-rail) that turns around about 225 degrees to reach a short switching district in the middle of my room.  The curve is made with Atlas 36 inch radius curve sections.  I know for a fact that you can run 15 or 18 car trains around it without issue.  I also found that any Atlas rolling stock up to bulkhead flats and 33k tank cars work fine on 36 inch radius as well. 

I found after much trial and error that although 36 inch radius looks tight, operationally its fine up to the cars I mentions and Atlas SD40s.  Another thing I learned is  It's looks tight from the perspective from outside of the curve and from above.  But from the perspective inside the curve it's not really that noticeable.  Especially if you get your layout high closer to eye level.  So for this section of my layout I made it where the operator works from inside the curve area as they pass though.  I have all my track up and running so I know how it looks and it's not bad. 

I once read an article where when you switch scales, train length and curve radius don't translate visually straight up.  I have found this to be true.  Over the last few years I looked hard at switching to HO and N (ultimately I stayed with 2-rail).  HO trains need more cars cars/locos to "feel" appropriate and N needs even more.  I found that for me, for N you need about 4 locos and 35 cars to equal an HO train of three locos with about 24 cars to equal an O train of two locos with about 12 cars. For me, HO scale curves needed to be around 36-40 inch radius to feel right once I contructed some test curves.  So in n you would think it would be somewhere around 18-22 inch. But once you set them up I really thought I would need 28-30 inch for n to feel right.  For me it works the same for 2-rail O.  For me I don't need 60+ inch curves for the trains to feel right.  I think 45-54 inch curves are fine and once I get them in place, and from the inside of the curve perspective, I don't really notice the difference. Now I run modern stuff so I know if I have large stream that would affect this a lot.  But I have build three layouts in O to the point of having the track down so I have tested a lot of this.  My first had a 60 inch minimum and I felt it wasted a lot of modeling and operational space.   I just see a lot of interest from modelers from other scales and many get stuck on the "need" for 60 or 72 inch radius curves, which eat up a ton of room.  I just don't think it is necessary at all.  Certainly nice though if you have the room!

I would prefer to have wider curves but the tight curve I used was required if I wanted to add the switching district. It's worked out really well.

Thanks

Don

Don,

Thank you,that was very informative.

I've got a 25' wide by 50' long basement but I have sump pumps on the south 50' length & shelving where there are no water appliances. Around 3/4s of my basement has shelving that range in depth from 3' deep to 2&1/2' deep. I have to work around 2'x4' supports also. The shelves average from widths of 30"-30&1/2". The shelves have 4 levels-I planned to use the 2nd level from the floor which is 3'&3/4" in height from the floor which is fine for visual effect.

 

I've found 25,500 gallon Atlas tankers work fine on 45" as well as 48" radius. I'd like to drop down to 40" on sidings,as in HO 18"-20" was fine,but an MTH 2 rail diesel with fixed pilots,I'm watching on the Public Delivery Track, say it'll only negotiate 42" radius.

 

I like long trains is my problem. 12 cars in O is fine with me though, it looks as good as 18 cars in HO,specifically my 4750s is what I'm comparing now.

 

What I've got in planning so far is on my 40' north shelf. #5 turnouts will house 5 tracks. I'm figuring on 2 main tracks & 3 yard tracks.

 

I'm figuring on a paper mill that uses boxcars,covered hoppers,& tankers,2.a chemical factory that uses tankers only,a large grain elevator that I thought I'd make to receive grain to be used in milling that'd produce corn syrup of many different grades as well as other products. Maybe a receiver of lumber,bulkhead flats from Atlas),as well as a Co-Op that receivers fertilizer cars in the fall & spring,also. I was going to have ethanol, of which we've got no compatible cars on the market yet except Lionel & a cement plant,but those last 2 are not on the "to do" list because of available models.

 

I've got a furnace & staircase to dodge, but figure that's minor,that occupies layout space. Another thing I think would be better for my layout,is #4 instead of #5 switches except on on crossovers,but only BK makes those. All other companies I'm aware of make #5&#6 which occupy more room.

 

Thanks again for the input,that gives a lot of hope & insight.

Al Hummel

I can tell you from personal experience that the following MTH scale-wheeled engines will negotiate down to 36" radius with cars coupled:

• U25B
• C40-8W
• C40-8
• SD70ACe
• ES44AC
• GP35
• GP38
• ATSF Blue Goose 4-6-4 Hudson

I've also had confirmation from another forum member (a testing fluke) that the scale-wheeled Big Boy will actually pull off 36" radius due to articulation and small driver wheelbase. The tender surprised me. This is due to the basic design being 3-rail compatible. I'm curious about the Challenger as it's even smaller. I'll find out for sure down the road when mine arrives in December.

AGHR Matt:

Thank you this helps too.

Does anyone have any inside info from MTH or our forum members,whether MTH plans to make any GP 38-2s or 40-2s? I'm looking for the CSX models of course in the YN3 scheme with the modern boxcar logo,but would be happy with the YN2 scheme.

After watching videos of the GP38-2 MTH models,the movement of the diesel is fine as far as slow speed but the diesel horn sounds as well as other sounds leave a lot to be desired. Is there anyway to replace the sounds with more realistic sound?

Al Hummel

My post should have read GP38-2 and yes, MTH did them in CNW last year and ATSF this time around (I think they're sold out at MTH but may be at some dealers). The engine sounds on the GP38-2 are good, but the horn is somewhat generic. For the most part, I run the engines at AGHR with the pickup rollers in and in 3-rail mode, but I kept the scale wheels in place since we have flat-top rail. It also helps us find and fix bad spots in the track as a couple of other members like running scale-wheeled rolling stock.

 

Don- a fine post. My theory is that if you can't see both ends of a train without turning your head, then its length is adequate.

 

It also helps us find and fix bad spots in the track as a couple of other members like running scale-wheeled rolling stock.

Yes, some of us are weird that way...