Had a "Train Fire" Tonight...Almost Lost the House

The hole in the ceiling in the second picture truly is scary.  Gla d you got it under control when you did and happy that you and your family areafe and still have your home.

 

Joe

Larry,

 

Sorry this happened to you and your personal layout.  It would be nice if the major manufacturers would put out videos advising the public of the possibilities of instances like this and what to do and not to do when constructing and operating their layouts.  Glad you are okay and that your intuition told you to go back into the garage.  I never leave my layout unattended.  My wife kids me about burning down the house.  I'm not taking that chance.

 

Hope most that was destroyed can be salvaged.  Good luck and keep us updated.

Yikes!!

Glad to hear you were able to put it out, I will agree you probably should have called 911, then fought the fire.

Good job having 2 extinguishers handy. I think I will get another one for the basement layout.

 

Looks like 2 cars, some track and switches, and possible one engine are toast.

I too would bounce it off your Insurance agent, just inquire and see if the possible increase in premium is worth the payout.

 

And I too am now going to eliminate the phone wire to my switches. I already had to double up wires on a couple of them due to voltage drop, that should have been a wakeup call.

I was not aware that dual coil switch machines would overheat so easily. I will be looking at my switches to add thermistors (or fuses) now.

 

Timdude;

Lee uses big wire with minute resistance, thus any short appears back at the circuit breaker with no lag from wire resistance.

Conversely, A short at the other end of a small wire will look like an engine pulling power, not a short, due to the added resistance of the wire.

The resistance of the wire reduces the actual current flow (possibly below the threshold for the breaker) but the wire then heats up and becomes a fire hazard along with the short.

I too am glad this wasn't any worse.  Sorry you experienced that.  A good solution here is to have 120V kill switch powering all the outlets that feed the layout.  And better yet have a red bulb in a socket connnected with the switch.  Locate the kill switch near the room entrance so you visually know the whole layout is dead when you leave the room.  Best to have a licensed electrician do the work.

 

Phil   

Ever since my first MTH RealTrax switch burned its plastic base black, I have always kept a fire extinguisher handy.

Several burnt switches later I switched (no pun) to Lionel Fastrak, which I feel is superior.

Am so glad it was not worse. When I set up my layout in basement I installed power switch for the layout. As i enter or leave the train room I turn on or turn off the power. Has worked very well over the years. Tom

SD60 were the fire started at..was there any coal chunks around that area?  i saw in the video there was some area that had them..a good ark/spark would set that stuff off...Im not trying to be a butt head or anything..

You are indeed fortunate and I am glad that your damage is limited. As we know, this could have been a disaster.

 

Good lesson for all of us. stay with your layout when running and have a fire extinguisher ready to go.

I am glad you caught it and glad you are alive to tell the tale.  Had you fallen asleep as one posted noted, you might not have gotten out yourself.   So, again, I am thankful you were not injured. 

 

One way to avoid overheating twin solenoid switch machines is to use a DC capacitor-discharge circuit.  Basically, a resistor keeps any constant current too low to overheat the coils but the capacitor provides the momentary "oomph" to throw the machine.  The original purpose was to avoid burning out the solenoid coils but it looks like cheap insurance for avoiding burning down the house.

I am sorry for you loss, but glad you caught it before it got much worse. 

 

I will make sure I never leave the train room unattended when running stuff. 

Wow! Sure glad you caught it in time before it went any further!

 

Sure looks like it started around the switch in the center of the burned out hole and spread from there.

 

The extinguishers are a great item to have on hand. Just gives you a sense of security if you ever have a problem and you did!

Also don't know if any one mentioned it but a smoke detector  would also be something to add in the room (as long as your engines don't produce heavy smoke to set it off). They are inexpensive and most of the new ones come with a 10 year battery in them so you don't have to worry about changing it every year.

 

Good luck on the clean up!

I second that Wow that is also very unfortunate wake up call to me personally. While I don't leave the power on while out of the room, your terrible experience made me go out and get a fire extinguisher. I am guilty as the next in being complacent. What happened to you is frighting to say the least.

I began to think about how much of the materials ( landscaping, buildings etc ) are flammable. Quite a bit. One more cautionary note to myself as I use a lot of fifty plus year old accessories is go over all of them with servicing...I have had a few close calls with solenoids..hmm, whats that smell?..also old cloth wiring ( which has been replaced) I hope all this , in the end, turns out well for you. 

Here's another thought.  I belong to the American Flyer group on Facebook and someone there had an old AF transformer that overheated and almost scorched the carpeting.  I remember as a kid leaving one plugged in and it started to smell hot.  To this day I don't trust any of the old transformers leaving them plugged in without them doing something such as running a train or lighting lamps.  Even then I don't leave anything un-attended especially old electrical equipment with the old two-prong plug.

 

Phil

I've used Del-Aire switch motors on a previous layout. They are air actuated. EZ-Air now makes a similar unit.

http://elmassian.com/trains/tr...ir-operated-switches

I'm sorry for your loss but am glad you were able to get it under control! At least no one was hurt and the damage wasn't widespread. On the upside, that UP tunnel motor has a neat, prototypical look of a unit that suffered an engine fire!

A dual or photoelectric/ionization detector is the best as long as you don't mount it directly over the layout. Both are susceptible to train smoke though.

Larry, sorry to hear of your fire. They say the good Lord works in strange ways. There's no doubt in my mind that he sent you out to the garage to put the fire out. Your layout is great. I really enjoyed the smoothness at which everything ran.

Wow, I was going to build a tunnel over part of my layout this winter using the pink foam, I think I will use ceiling tiles instead (fire resistant). Thanks for sharing you experince.

I've often worried about something like this happening especially since I use PW transformers.

 

In order to make sure the power is off when I walk away from the layout I wired this into my main power bus.  No chance of me missing this when I walk out the train room door.

 

 

I'm thankful you caught this before more damage was done!

YIKES!  Flammable Foam and High Voltage. A source of combustion and a combustible.

All you need is a spark.

 

I wonder if a thin sheet of asbestos under the switch motor would have kept the heat from frying the foam?

Hi Alan, that's funny you should suggest that because I was thinking about a plumbers heat shield. I bought a 12" by 12" woven cloth to be used when sweating pipe near a joist or inside a sink cabnet. I can't remember the proper name for it but you can place a torch flame on one side and it will not burn the wood on the otherside. Just a thought!

Sounds like you need to add some fuses or circuit breakers in the power wires going to the switches.  Take a current reading with an analog meter, while the switch motor is operating, and fuse each individual power wire at roughly twice that amperage. Operate the switch, and see if the fuse holds. If so, that should be enough protection.

Mario.....great minds!!

 

I have used that too for sweating copper. WAS it really asbestos?

Asbestos may be hard to find. Maybe a sandwich of aluminum foil and mineral board sealed with a high temp caulk? Use this whenever a potential electrical heat source is over bare pink foam.

I use foam on my layout. After reading this I will consider spraying with a commercial fireproofing product. It is usually required for fabric sculptures and sometimes wooden products that are used in decorative lighting fixtures in malls etc. It is available in non toxic water based formulas. Amazing stuff. Spray on with a cheap pump spray bootle. Let it dry and you can put a Bic lighter to stuff that would normally go up in flames with noxious fumes and watch it not do what you would expect. Google it. Most building codes insist on it for new construction.

Yikes! You are in deed lucky to have escaped with just that amount of damage! Things (obviously) could have been far worse.

 

One thing you should ALWAYS do in a situation like this is CALL the FIRE DEPARTMENT FIRST! Then attempt to fight the fire if possible. Be sure to leave yourself a way out, just in case things go really bad. You stated you were not sure if you could get it out, and in fact used 2 extinguishers to do so. You are truely lucky to have the second one nearby, and that it was enough to do the job.  I have seen fires where 6 or 7 extinguishers were used, and the place still went up.

 

I think there have been some excellent suggestions for what to do to prevent future occurrances. I definitely like the idea of a master kill switch and indicator light. I also like the idea of putting the power to the switches on a separate circuit. Then one can protect the circuit with appropriate sized fuses or CBs. Of course, this idea won't work with most O27 remote control switches unless they are rewired to by-pass track power.

 

Thank you for sharing your unfortunate experience with us. I hope we all learned something today.

 

Chris

LVHR

 

 

Larry,

Thank you for the sobering fire safety reminder. I hope your layout is soon back in operation.

 

I had a close call in the garage when my '63 Buick caught on fire while I sat in it warming up the engine before pulling out. (Gasoline leaked from the carburetor onto the hot manifold and ignited.) In short, my wife called the fire department and my son grabbed an old fire extinguisher which worked perfectly, thankfully. I could have quickly lost my entire house. I learned my lesson and bought three large fire extinguishers- one each for the kitchen, garage, and basement next to the train table.

 

Bill

I'd use a vacuum cleaner to suck up as much of that dry chemical powder AS POSSIBLE DO NOT USE ALKALINE CLEANERS as corrosive ammonia will form. A pretreatment with acid MIGHT work but make sure you vacuum away as much of the powder as you can, then use PURE WATER to wash away more of the chemical before the acid treatment.

I remember as a kid a doctor in the train club that was a Pathologist said to NEVER use particle board or foam when building your home, due to lung damage caused by the fumes in a fire. I see in picture 2 several internal switch parts laying on the table, are you sure  all the switches were together correctly? Everyone that does not believe the power of a train transformer should take a transformer out side at night, put a piece of phone wire between the a-u post  and crank it up and see the pretty glow, it will make you a believer in big wire.

Glad you are safe. Another thing to be grateful about is that you were not in an area that confined the fumes from the melting/burning foam. Some of that stuff is toxic enough to really mess you up when you breath it. I don't even like using the hot wire foam cutters because of the fumes.

Learn from the HO guys. The atlas switch controllers are OK. BUT, after a few years of use, sometime they tend to stick on and burn up a switch machine. Lionel and MTH controllers are completely different and should not have this problem.

 

Also check you dry chemical extinguishers to make sure the chemicals in them have not hardened over several years making them less than useful. Gauge may read OK but the chemicals are a big lump not able too get out of the Fire extinguisher nozzle;

"Also check you dry chemical extinguishers to make sure the chemicals in them have not hardened over several years making them less than useful. Gauge may read OK but the chemicals are a big lump not able too get out of the Fire extinguisher nozzle;"

 

The fix for this is very simple: Just invert the extinguisher and shake it. Repeat. You can feel the powder loosening and shifting to the other end.  Do this several times a year.

 

Chris

LVHR

K.I.S.S. 

 

How about this: Just cut out a small square of foam UNDER the switch coil. this will allow the heated coil to breathe and eliminate a spot where the foam could ignite.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/140897859956?_lwgsi=y&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

 

Heres something interesting that I found on e-bay.

 

Another reason I got rid of all my Atlas switches.  The switch motors burn out if there’s a breeze in the room.  The switch controllers that come with them are nothing short of junk!  I don’t know how the new (available for separate sale) controllers work.

 

But I would give Atlas a call and send them pictures to see what they say.

Wow. Off to shake the fire extinguishers and put two more on the shopping list for the rooms with layouts in them.

 

Those melted cars would make an excellent safety exhibit. Son just looked over my shoulder and remarked that the engine damage looks strikingly similar to a real engine after a prime mover fire.

 

--Becky

NYC 428...these switches were being controlled by the new #57 Atlas switch controller.

 

I did send Atlas O...Steve...this thread and ask him to look at it.  I am not raising a "stink" or asking for anything...but, I did want to let them see what happened. The melted foam does, however, stink.

 

I suspect it could be called "operator error" somehow or the other.

 

Thanks to everyone for their replies and well wishes.

 

Just a couple of comments.

 

This "layout" is a "double-decker." The fire started on the upper level in my "yard area" where I have six tracks.  So, the second photo (displayed in random order) could appear that there was a hole burned into my garage attic...when it is, actually) a view looking from the bottom level through the second.

 

Two Atlas O Wye switches were completely destroyed.  A third may have suffered damage.  The fire that spread to the ground, garage level largely did so by virtue of various hot metal pieces that fell to that level once everything plastic had melted around them.  I found wheel sets from the melted cars and various "pistons" from the Atlas O switches that had heated up and fell to the boxes and papers stored below.

 

I know many of you have cautioned against the telephone wire leads...but, I'll probably keep them...and not one of them shows any evidence of themselves overheating.  It was the coil in the switches.  I cannot tell...but, I think both of the switch motors that are entirely gone...might have heated up together in order to actually cause the flames.  A couple others have melted through before...but, that was it...they just melted their way through the foam.

 

I have to do a closer postmortem once I clear away the garage junk.

 

The engine involved was a non-powered version.  Little did I realize it was becoming a "collector's item" because MTH is no longer making them.

 

Thanks again for all the nice and professional comments.  I appreciate not being drawn and quartered over this event.

 

I do realize I am extremely blessed to have suffered no more damage than we did. 

 

PS...I'll probably just pull that section out of the frame and preserve it as a "scene" somehow.  The engine does look like an engine fire victim.  Who knows, it may appear on a funeral train or one headed to one of the firms who restore wrecks.

 

For those who commented on removing the dry chemicals from the fire extinguisher...

 

That stuff is everywhere below the layout...more than on.  There is some "ash" on parts of the layout.  Not being a great environmentalist...I have tried to vacuum up most of it.  Otherwise, I've opened the garage doors and window...creating as much ventilation as I can and used the blower function on the shop vacuum to blow the mess out into the world.  I will use high pressured air to rid most residue from any cars that might be affected.

 

As for the garage...evacuating the contents to a storage POD...so I can clean up, fix up, and paint the entire area.  I will attempt to wash away whatever ash and extinguisher debris that makes it to the floor.  I don't foresee washing every car that may have been affected.

 

I suppose I'll have to list a disclaimer from now on...if I sell anything...that the item I am selling was or was not exposed to the fire event.

 I appreciate not being drawn and quartered over this event.

Oh g-d no!   Sh-t happens!

 

There is a certain expectation that our toys won't burn down the house. However, the ZWs, the tracks at full voltage, the outside ground rail on metal tracks; smoke fluid being fine oil, shorts on a derail; flammable paints and plastics; thin wiring with high voltage; there is just so much that can happen.

 

I think if anything your accident brings to the forefront the many fire issues that occur necessitating the close proximity to extinguishers.

 

 

 

"PS...I'll probably just pull that section out of the frame and preserve it as a "scene" somehow." 

 

You should place it next to your Lionel nuclear reactor. Make the hole a bit deeper, install a smoke unit or fog machine, a blue light, and voila! instant China Syndrome! Of course, some tongue in cheek signage won't hurt...

 

Chris

LVHR