Had a "Train Fire" Tonight...Almost Lost the House

Why is the foam taking the hit when its the switch machine design that's the ignition source? Foam or no foam, I get higher blood pressure thinking that the switches on my layout are potential fire hazards.

Glad to hear that you are OK; toy trains are replaceable.  Smart on your part to have a fire extinguisher easily available. Just curious, were there any toxic fumes coming from the foam?

As an FYI to safety.  In addition to breakers, extinguishers. dedicated circuits, etc. I installed a pilot switch that glows red when I have turned power on to the layout. In the past I have turned off all power to the tracks, buildings, accessories, etc. (via toggle switches) and the only lights on are the green lights for the ZWs.  I sometimes get distracted and have left the power on for the transformers and closed the lights to the train room.  Now should the pilot light be on I (very obvious with all train room lighting off) I have a second chance to power down. Just turn this switch off and the power to the trains shuts down and the pilot light goes out. I hate getting old!!!!

Anthony...there certainly were some fumes coming from the burning foam.  They seemed to rise with the smoke and, fortunately, I was able to duck under them.  More foam, more flame, more of an event...and I might not have been able to "stay low."

Fortunately, the whole layout is at 6' 2" above the floor to begin with...so, I was able to work from below the fire.  I did get a few good snoots full of that stuff while working on the fire...it concerned me...but, it all worked out.

Thanks for the kind words.

Bobby Ogage...I do NOT blame the foam.  It is good stuff.  The switch machines are not supposed to catch on fire...I agree.

I would not second guess a person's actions in a battle.

Case in point, my mack caught fire after the old 123 brake system stuck and burned and blazed up under the 5th wheel. I hit it with the extinguisher and then ran to get 911 knowing it may have or may not have done the job.

As luck would have it, it did the job and saved rig and it's valuable milk load.

I have fought many fires in my time and quite frankly, I think the pictures themselves have much to tell. I am thankful that it worked out well... that time.

Another time I was struggling with fatigue and went to lie down while waiting for water to boil for a meal. There was a wash rag on the stove and within a few minutes the Detector sounded. Flipped a skillet over and capped it and scooped it all off and out the patio door into a koi pond. Fish replaceable, living quarters not.

Never mind my stories, I have a Extinguisher in every room because I lived in a home that would simply go up and then suffer what I call a back blast at any point and cremate you three steps prior to any exit method.

The thing that saved my home was the persistant buzzing. The electrical box would buzz when I ran trains or anything like a coffee pot. Buzz buzz buzz. The electrician proved to be not interested in it and was essentially fired. Another electrician pulled out the Amp meter and tested it loading. It turned out it was a substandard 50 amp unit pulling something like 92 amps at times to run the house and slowly burning through the mains themselves.

It was all ripped out and replaced with a 200 amp power, gennie and protection plus a 10 foot ground rod. That week.

If you are still here after my post, I thank you. Fire is nothing to fool with and it will KILL you in a number of ways. I have a mindset not to run from fighting a fire... but there was one... at a foundry near a propane fuel truck... My stride was a bit like a feather and 4 miles vanished when you run like I did that day to get away...

Tip when you see red faced turning purple fat trucker running that away.. DONT be looking this awaya...

The twin coil switch machine design is not the problem, the way they are controlled is. If you use capacitive discharge, an expensive momentary switch, or tmcc to control them this will not happen. Everything on your layout with power applied is a potential fire hazard, foam just speeds up the problem.

My mom got me a fire extinguisher for Christmas.  I didn't really know where to put it as I have several extinguishers throughout the house and garage.  After reading this thread I put it in my train room, right next to the control panel.  Hope I never have to use it!

Tom

Glad you were able to think fast enough to grab the fire extinguishers and they were enough to extinguish the fire.  In the past, I have forgotten and left things powered up.  I will have to be more diligent about powering everything off. 

The fire extinguisher is a good idea, but the switch design is the culprit. I don't buy that model railroading is a fire hazard because of all of the electrical connections. I don't buy that the foam caused the fire!

The switch design is the ignition source and if the double induction coil design has a mode of operation that can cause a fire, it needs identification and corrective action.

I agree 100% on both points.

I too have to agree the foam or electricals are not the true cause.  I have the old switch controls for my American Flyer and before they were installed I took them apart to be sure they worked as intended (not sticking) so I wouldn't burn up a switch.  Common sense rules too in making sure our connections are done properly, there is no arcing, and accessories are serviced to perform as intended. Also, we have to pay attention to how much we're plugging into the household outlet.  Some of our layouts might demand more than 15-20 amps of power.  Personally for my layout I'm using screen and plaster scenery which is esentially fireproof but I've only chosen that because I don't care to use foam.  Perhaps what I'm saying has already been said but it cannot be stressed enough.

Phil

Wow, Really scary stuff. How do we protect this thing happening with twin coil switch machines . Fuses and circuit breakers? probably not. It doesn't take much for a button on a controller to stick in the "on" pressed position. Same thing with uncoupling tracks.

quote:

Wow, Really scary stuff. How do we protect this thing happening with twin coil switch machines

Perhaps an indicator light (or LED) wired in parallel with each coil (including uncoupler coils). An LED wouldn't draw much power. If it is lit continuosly, there is a problem.

Where do I start, the switch machine will never do this unless power is applied non stop by a sticking controller, or a power wire putting constant voltage to it. The foam is a big part of the problem too, if the layout was built on a concrete floor, we would only see smoke. A section of concrete board under all switches would work I guess. I do not want to bust on this guys misfortune but I have to ask, why are there 3 atlas internal switch parts laying next to the fire zone in picture 2? I also thought I read in post 1 that he heard a pop a few months ago and found a hole burned in the foam, was that not a warning? Did you fix the switch or just repower the layout later. I do not think we will ever know what happened for sure. We do know for a fact that foam is not allowed to be exposed without a 1 hour fire barrier no matter what, by any building code so if you use it on your layout you did create a fire hazard. There is no way to make any relay or solenoid 100% safe from overheating, safety circuits can and do fail, all you can do is minimize the risk, with safety circuits and fireproofing.

Anthony, I posted what you've said a few days ago and am glad you repeated it in more detail.  You can't beat the telltale obvious red lamp telling you the layout is still somehow powered.  It's mainly foolproof and lets you feel confident the layout is esentially completely dead of any power when the red light is out.

Phil 

OK, I'm probably repeating someone above - but it's too much to read:

First, the burned cars and locos have "scene" written all over them; train wreck

damage. Bright side time.

Second, though I too have left the layout a "while", leaving the thing all powered up,

I do not do this often; I just don't like doing that sort of thing, because I'm paranoid.

Related to this philosophy, and eliminating the unattended layout-short possibility

(and lightning damage also), when my layout is not in use, it is completely disconnected

from the power company. The plug on the cord that supplies 100% of all

layout power (track, switches, command base...) is literally pulled out of the wall.

No unattended layout fires - actually caused by the layout - are then possible.