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One of the hobby shops I have been working with for many years now has watched the business cycle of the hobby. Last year was the bottom of the cycle, now according to him it's time for a slow climb out of the bottom. The issue now according to him is the manufacturers have cut back production to the point that it is difficult to get the product in to fill the shelves.
     I saw an economic reports a month ago and they said hobby shops were showing stronger sales. Is the hobby recession over and happy days are ahead?

Scott Smith

 

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Seems to me that if, as your guy says,  "it is difficult to get the product to fill the shelves", then "happy days are ahead" may prove difficult as well. Also (if this forum is any indication), it appears that lots of folks are buying pretty much whatever comes along, so I don't see that there has indeed been a "hobby recession". 

Most economic experts are not calling for "happy days" in the future for the over-all economy, so I don't know...

Mark in Oregon

 

In the past 9 months, 2 hobby shops within 60 minutes of my house have closed, and a third one just announced they’re going out of business.  None of these were because the owners passed away or were retiring.  

One of the three didn’t surprise me a bit, but the other two did.  They had diverse inventories that seemed to turn over regularly, had good locations in the local commercial zone, and one even was within 5 minutes of 20,000+ college students. 

Once they close we’ll be left with only card playing shops and a few Hobby Lobby stores. 

I think the hobby will continue to prosper in the future. I left the hobby during high-school and returned to it 39 years later when I had the time, money and appreciation of the modern products to get involved again. My grandsons have been playing with trains and interested in my layouts since they were two or three years old. Yes, they now also have other interests but I think they may return to the hobby some day, as I did. There are very few model train stores in my area now but I think that marketing will be done primarily by large mail-order sellers in the future. The bigger concerns for me are the high costs of premium items, the frequency of quality and repair issues, and the loss of major manufacturers left to supply the market. I would rather see new locomotives with fewer and simpler features and for which replacement parts remain available over the long term. Has the hobby bottomed out? Probably. This may be the level at which it remains in the future. Can it survive this way? Why not? I would also like to see manufacturing return to the USA.

MELGAR

A train show I attended last month was very large for our area. Added to the big size was the huge number of young families. My grandkids are bored to tears with anything video or electronic. One grand daughter likes LEGO the other crafts things from basic materials like sticks, felt and glue. 

So maybe it is time for a small up tick. O3r is the most user friendly scale with the most options as far as sets at Ollie's for $60 to $3K wonder locos. Plain old conventional to top line command control. 

I'd be nice to see a up swing.....but if it doesn't happen...I have more than I will ever need. 

cta4391 posted:

In the past 9 months, 2 hobby shops within 60 minutes of my house have closed, ........................................................................., and one even was within 5 minutes of 20,000+ college students. 

..............................

While we may have some enthusiastic young blood around  here, is it enough that being near a college actually helps?  I sort of doubt it.

I assembled a few of my HO buildings while in college (not more than 2 per semester, IIRC), but that was it. Problems: 1st: time, 2: money, 3: space in a dorm room - so maybe the last one is not a problem if most students at a particular college are local and still living with parents, but the first 2 are still issues for a lot of college kids, no matter where they are living when not at school.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see much of a benefit there.

As to the question overall, I think others have suggested a lot of the problems.  Decreasing quality with increasing prices are not a good thing to coincide with a lot of people exiting the hobby for various reasons.

There is probably a small cross section of exceptions.  I have a friend my age (mid 40's) who has interest in trains, but also has 3 kids he is raising and will be putting through college.  He has over the years bought just a boxcar or maybe small starter set level add-on passenger cars once in a while (like not more than one or 2 items a year for the most part).  Even once his kids are all grown and out of the house, while he has interest, he is not as interested as most folks here.  Even if he can easily afford it then, he will not likely be buying $1000+ train sets or engines in multiples each year.  He may get a small layout going and enjoy running some of the post war stuff he has from his dad along with the items he has picked up on his own.  And I am considering him the positive exception.  But that level of interest even from a whole bunch of people can't support the mass amount of product offerings some have gotten used to in the last 20 years.

I'll suggest rock bottom in terms of quantity of different offerings hasn't happened.  I don't think we've really gone down much (not that I count the items in each catalog).  Granted catalogs now are just wish books, and if not enough orders happen, items aren't produced.  But it's not like there are 200 cancellations from each catalog with 400 items in it, the cancellations still seem to be just a handful of items from time to time.

When the catalogs return to the sizes they were in the mid 90's, then I will agree we've gone down in the overall offerings and maybe hit rock bottom.  Of course, nothing says that ever happens.  A given company may just elect to close up shop rather than offer fewer items. 

At some point the bean counters running the show (for most companies - those not run by a person who owns the company as part of their own passion for trains) will say it's not worthy of any investment any longer. 

While I don't have a deep financial background, I did work in retail in a large chain while I was on college breaks many years ago.  The key thing I remember was that on the level of the store, your metric of how well you were doing was how much improved you were vs. the last month or last year (I think in this case it may have been the same month last year as a key metric, since holidays at the end of the year obviously see more retail $$ spent than mid summer).  The point is, if the train companies are trying to survive with that type of model of always having to do better than last year to be considered a financial success, I think the future does not look very good.  It was great during the explosive expansion of the late 90's through probably up to at least 10-12 years ago, but we probably saturated what could be absorbed by those with interest in the hobby.

-Dave

I don't think the hobby has bottomed out, just receded from the heady days of the 1990s and early 2000s.  Probably this contraction is largely also due to the relatively smaller population following the baby boom. Fewer consumers in their 40s through 50s, which are prime years,  and fewer consumers who remember three rail trains from the 1950s and early 1960s and  before.

The market has changed drastically. Fewer retail locations and many more sales through the web, including the auction site we all know.  Fewer pages in the magazines, fewer subscribers and more websites and on-line forums. 

The TCA has shrunk by 1/3 but local train shows seem to be doing well if there are displays and modular railroads.  HO and N seem to be doing well.  O three rail has shrunk but is still meriting sales of tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands or more Lionel starter sets each year, and huge catalogs, most of which find their way into production. 

From an electronics and features standpoint, things have never been better.  The low end and middle range products seem pretty reliable in my hands.  Don't know about the high end, but I doubt things are as bad as some are assuming based upon individual screwups/problems.  My new ZW-L is a thing of beauty, and very much a worthy successor to the postwar ZW, for one example.

This hobby has and will continue to see it’s fair share of ups and downs. Is it at the bottom poised to swing upwards?  Possibly. Something substantially unique needs to happen among the ‘Big 3’ to give this hobby a push. Universal control maybe? Affordable scale product? I don’t know the exact answer.

This hobby of ours is considered a novelty among the mainstream hobbies proliferating currently. It needs to move away from novelty and become a first choice, with mainstream exposure, one that can be found in a Michaels, Hobby Lobby or AC Moore possibly

scott.smith posted:

now according to him it's time for a slow climb out of the bottom. 

 

In my opinion, that dude is dreaming.  Unless he has a serious Internet sales presence, his days are numbered.  As for the hobby itself, if that means Lionel/MTH/Atlas, then I'm sure it's fine.  It's not like they have US production facilities to worry about.  They're just middle men.  They kick our orders upstairs to the Chinese.  As long as the minimum orders get met and production continues, we'll never really know the state of the hobby.

O Scale is changing.  Years ago layouts were planned and cardboard boxes placed where future buildings would be.  Track was laid using a pencil sketch and adjusted during construction.  Kit assembly was a big part of the hobby.  Detailing, decals and painting made that car 'mine'.  With today's instant gratification generation, layouts are designed on computers and ready to run rolling stock fills the shelves of hobby stores.  Plug-'n-Place buildings are readily available which could be why Woodland Scenics buildings outsell Downtown Deco kits.  Many modelers would rather have a half dozen cheap toy boxcars than one or two models.  John in Lansing, ILL

Last edited by rattler21
Glenn Fresch posted:

Well, HO scale seems to have plenty of new product and is popular among the 40 and under crowd.  If there is a rebound that’s where it’s at, not the larger scales.  Perhaps in the future some of those people will start to dabble in the larger scales.  

HO scale Importers seem to be more in touch with their base. One size fits all doesn't cut it. The latest HO scale offerings have as much detail (and road specific) as Brass models.

We're passing the modernist phase of model railroading.
Realistic layouts are reaching their end.
It happened with video games, the graphics became so good that they were perfectly realistic, and couldn't go any further.

We need to transition into the phase of post modernism, layouts that stray from the norm with realism thrown out the window in favor of aesthetic. Neon colors or spiraling towers. Impossibly tall bridges with spindly supports, cartoonish buildings decorating a lavish mountainside. Each layout will be unique in it's aesthetic with it's own unique style designated entirely by the creator.

Change needs to come

I think Melgar nailed it - the 7th post in this thread.

In my experience the "magic" is still there.  The thing that has always been great about trains and model RR is that it involves so many different, creative things one can do in the pursuit of it.  Modeling trains - maintenance, mechanics, electrical, and electronics.  Scenery - matching colors to reality, airbrushing, art, turning internet-printed photos into backdrops or building signage, creativity.  History.  AND the fun of running trains - not a screen-based fantasy.  

So- how does the hobby get through the gap between when video gaming starts ( age 11- 16) to the place where the people are able to afford the time and cash (adults w/ post college children- say 55+)??  

Get your grandchildren- boys AND girls, into the hobby, and their parents/ your kids will participate too.  My youngest son is 35 with two children aged 3 and 6 months.  The children (really the family) has a Lionel LC starter set that is now a part of the family Christmas each year.  BUT, chances are the parents will simply give gifts that the child requests, not trains.  It might be up to YOU!

Take your grandchildren into the train room, NOT just to admire what YOU have done, but to build, paint and run your trains.  Accept that they might not paint as well as you.  

Make a game out of it- get your youngish grandchild to "hide" an item, like a small dinosaur that Grandpa has a hard time finding, somewhere on the layout, each time he visits.  Don't "find it" until he has left- then the game repeats. Operate your trains with your older teenaged grandchildren, moving coal cars between the mines and power plants, grain between the silos and the breweries, etc.  My layout has three separate transformers in three areas, and each can have its own operator.

Take your grandchildren to the LHS, to places like Corner Field Train Museum and EnterTRAINment, both here in Ohio, to train shows, to visit full scale train attractions.  BUT- realize that an hour is about IT if they are less than 6  - 8 years old (so don't make them captive to the 3-day York extravaganza that WE enjoy!!)  They will not only love being with you- they will begin to appreciate the hobby.

Manufacturers: please continue to offer lower-cost ways to get into the hobby.  The $ 250 starter set is the right price point for most families.  Then the young families can start to add to that set w/ more track, inexpensive buildings, etc.  You (grandpa and grandma) can also add to it with train gifts (until told "enough!").

But the reality is that brick and mortar shopping is on the wane- UNLESS we BUY from the LHS as it exists.

Last edited by Mike Wyatt

To me the upswing is in layout building and all that comes with it. Ask Ross.TW trainworx.Scenic express. There are more people who operate under the radar and don't participate in this forum or any other media  The layouts are big small and everything in between.When attending York those dealers for layout supples aren't complaining but selling I believe. As for the trains service is a real issue there is not a real pipeline of dependency at the local levels and you have to ship away and that adds to the cost for many.

Last edited by dk122trains

I can't say if the hobby (0 3R) has been in a slide or if it is starting to up turn again, I haven't been in the O Gauge hobby for that long maybe 6 or 7 years now but I can say that because of prices of the newer stuff coming out, I tend to look to the used market to get what I want.  Currently, my wife is out of a job and my job doesn't pay a hill of beans, she has always been the major bread winner in the family and her not being able to work has me shut down completely.  Even when she was working and the money was good, I've only purchased two locomotives in the "over $1000" price range, I just can't see it.  When I was modeling in HO, I didn't own that many brass engines as I always felt they were too expensive, so its the same way here.  I'm now in my 70's and we've finally got our 3 kids off of our car insurance and cell phone bill, that will free up a little more cash for us but I don't see myself looking to buy more in the hobby now.  I'm actually thinking about starting to sell of some of my locos and rolling stock and just keep a few of the stuff that I can actually be able to build a small layout and be able to run what I have.  Unfortunately, the hobby is starting to lose its older patrons and I don't really see that many young people wanting to get into the hobby.  I've loved trains for as long as I can remember, my dad worked for the SP when I was very little and I remember going and seeing trains everywhere we went, my passion for trains has stayed with me through out my whole life but my boys even though I always had trains around and stopped to look and take pictures of them, never formed that passion like I have.  So unless there is a big uptick in the younger generation in the future, I don't really see the hobby surviving and striving like it is right now.  Just my take on it.  Great discussion guys, Scott, thanks for starting it.

I belong to several Toy Train groups on Facebook.  The last quarter of 2018 and first two quarters of 2019 have been jammed with newbies who've received starter sets and have no clue to the hobby, it's history, or the basics. 

When talking about "Post War", some assume post Viet Nam... others post Gulf War 2.  Seriously.  They've never wired a transformer, because everything plugs into the track.  Tons of questions about things we might've mastered in the 50's 60's and 70's...

They buy things at Yard Sales and Flea Markets that LOOK like they should work with their trains... but have no basic background in electricity or voltage or amperage or wattage.  All their lives they've been taught to plug it in and it'll work...

We all need to be patient while they get up to speed.

Jon

Google "list of hobbies-wikipedia" for a staggering list of hobbies...although I think a number of these, like reading, could be classified as "interests" or "pastimes" (such as: I'm interested in baseball, so my pastime is to watch it on TV or read about it. My hobby is collecting vintage baseball cards.) It has been said that a hobby tends to produce something (such as a layout or a collection of model trains). It is interesting that they list this hobby as "Rail transport modeling" under "collection hobbies". 

I believe the majority of the public doesn't know where they can purchase model trains even if they wanted to. If its not in a Big Box store or Amazon then it goes right over their heads. I know its wishful thinking, but a store like Menards, Walmart, etc. needs to carry the big name brands of Lionel/MTH.

In the meantime, I do what I can through YouTube to promote the hobby and my LHS. YouTube seems to draw a young crowd that has a genuine interest in getting started in the hobby. YouTube channels like Eric Siegel's have probably helped the hobby more than we'll ever know.

Me personally: I'll consider the hobby as "rebounded" when Atlas starts producing and delivering new models. I still consider them the best in the business but they barely release anything these days.

Jason

Joe Hohmann posted:

... It is interesting that they list this hobby as "Rail transport modeling" under "collection hobbies". 

That is interesting, though in my mind, not at all surprising. Look at the dynamics for this hobby and it's apparent that there's a huge percentage of model train enthusiasts who are in it as "collectors" as much as they are "operators".

There is a deliberate effort to offer items strictly for their "collectable" value: I've said it here before, but it seems that almost anything that Lionel in O (and Marklin in HO) releases is eagerly snapped up, regardless of what that model is based on. A Lionel example that comes to mind right off would be the "Spy vs. Spy" item. Really? Show me the prototype, please. 

It's all part of the "branding exercise" you see on just about everything, everywhere. From cereal boxes and tee shirts to NASCAR and model trains, it's all about promoting the latest movie ("Polar Express" or "Batman" train), product or whatever. Whether this has any long term effect on the health of this hobby remains to be seen. Given the short attention span of the average American, I would guess it might...

As a fellow baseball fan,  let me paraphrase here: "Build it and they will come"..."Make it and they will buy".

Mark in Oregon

 

Joe Hohmann posted:

How many "young" (under 40) people do you know that have a hobby? I doubt if many could even define the word.

I've come across slews of teens with "Watching youtube" and "Playing Video Games" as hobbies.
One even blocked me when I attempted to discuss the fact! So stubborn.
My hobbies are Model train collecting, electrical tinkering, and art, things that all "produce" something as a result.

Although I do agree with you, the definition of "hobby" is simply something that is done for enjoyment in leisure time. It does not necessarily have to "produce something as a result".

Younger people who might list "watching youtube" or "playing video games" as hobbies do so simply because that's what they grew up doing. Just as a lot of us older folks did growing up building balsa airplanes, etc. 

That's just a sign of the times, I guess.

Mark in Oregon

Oh, Lordy, not this topic again?  I swear there's a federal law requiring a burst of hand-wringing introspection about "What is the future of our hobby?" at least once every couple of months.

I have nothing new to offer -- my crystal ball is no better than anyone else's.  So I'll just comment on a few of the observations already posted:


"In the past 9 months, 2 hobby shops within 60 minutes of my house have closed, and a third one just announced they’re going out of business.  None of these were because the owners passed away or were retiring. "

Same here.  We had an excellent trains-only store in my area, up to about four years ago.  I was there every weekend, and spent a lot of money -- and I wasn't the only one; the operation was doing quite well.  Then it closed (I believe the owner wanted to pursue some religious vocation).

Next, a general hobby store with a fairly good train section opened up near one of the local malls.  Two years ago, it vanished with no explanation.  My personal belief is that it was in a bad location, but I never knew for sure.

Then a hobby operation that had been bouncing from location to location for at least ten years folded and died.  In that instance, I think the owner's personality had a lot to do with it.

"I would rather see new locomotives with fewer and simpler features and for which replacement parts remain available over the long term."

I couldn't agree more.  I know there are a lot of hard-core technophiles on this board who will find this  a very hard pill to swallow, but I'm firmly convinced this is true.  I will leave it at that.

"While we may have some enthusiastic young blood around  here, is it enough that being near a college actually helps?  I sort of doubt it."

I live near A Major Eastern University(tm), where I worked for 25 years prior to my retirement.  And I can tell you that hobbies of any kind are the very furthest things from the students' minds.  Any resurgence of interest in skilled hobbies isn't going to come from more than a minuscule percentage of today's college crowd.  I'm not going to bother laying out the reasons, which are many and diverse.  Suffice it to say that any significant infusion of "enthusiastic young blood" is going to have to originate in a later demographic.

"HO scale Importers seem to be more in touch with their base. One size fits all doesn't cut it."

Probably correct.

"I believe the majority of the public doesn't know where they can purchase model trains even if they wanted to. If its not in a Big Box store or Amazon then it goes right over their heads."

That's another factor.

Hmm, good question. Well, I'm 47 and younger than most here. From my perspective I know growing up here in NJ there was only a handful of kids in my classes that were interested in trains. Hobby shops from when I was a kid disappeared in the '90s and you had to find a dedicated train store(as the hobby shops catered to models more than model trains).

In the early 2000's what had been my main stay train store up and disappeared on me as well. I think that had more to do with the owners then the business itself. I had found a better place to go and have since.

I myself had also gone out of the hobby, that was more to do with getting a new job and starting from the bottom up once more than anything else. I came back about 4 years ago by seeing some stuff on YouTube as I had been interested in getting the train under the tree once more(sort of was too occupied with other things and running around like crazy around the holidays to do it).

Since coming back and talking to my local train store owner a lot over the past few years, I think things are upswing as well. I believe that the second market trains(TMCC) are a good part of this. I do know that Tony(LTSO) has quite a selection still of TMCC on his shelf as well as stuff he's bought in collections. He said to me he's had one of his best years(I think last year) and keeps getting better.

Is this because of new blood, no idea. I think it is more of people off the radar that aren't in the TCA but may be in their own train clubs or groups. The other thing that involves my generation and younger(maybe older too), is that there is a ton of other stuff that could be occupying their time. Who can say for sure, just my take on it.

Something I noticed years ago was that collectables , toy trains included, tend to reflect the economy in general but magnify it some ways at the same time.  People must have discretionary income left after paying for essentials combined with an ebullient mental attitude to spend money on hobbies and other leisure activities. The readers on our forum do not factor all that much into growth we are diehards and don't come and go all that much. The growth has to come from those with a passing fancy, and they must get hooked as we are.   When is the next baby boom, when is the next uptick in people reaching retirement age. What I am afraid is that any growth we may see is spurious rather than a trend line.  More in line with a general upturn in economic trends where the upturn, in our hobby,  that began in the seventies and ran into the turn of the century was a trend line based on demographics. Truly would love to be wrong here.    j

Last edited by JohnActon

As someone else posted, not exactly a new thread, and much of the same things being made. First of all, of course people have hobbies, using O gauge 3 rail as an indicator of the health of hobbies is simplistic. For example, as there was in my day and in prior days, there are young people into cars, it amazes me how many young people for example I see at a local car show labor day weekend that has classic cars as its focus, and a lot of them for some reason are into the whole 1950's thing, which is before my time (music/cars/clothing, etc). You look on pinterest, and  there are young people into 'old people's' things like needlepoint and crochet and knitting , there are people into a wide variety of things, and new hobbies have overtaken the old, in other cases old hobbies have become new. I don't think young people aren't into hobbies, I think simply they are different than we were...and in some ways aren't so much different. Someone said they live near a college, and none of the kids are into hobbies.....I hate to tell you, but in my time, back in the early 80's, college kids weren't into hobbies either, most of them were busy with school, and important things like dating, drinking, more drinking, dating, they had neither the time, money or inclination for hobbies (okay, maybe exotic beer caps, many a big argument that Yuengling was not an exotic Chinese beer *lol*). Seriously,  you can't use that to judge anyone, and even kids not going to college and working/doing a trade/etc aren't going to be big on hobbies.  

As far as if we have hit "rock bottom", I think that depends on what you are talking about. In 3 rail trains, I don't think we are near a bottom nor likely to get there, in the 1970's all we had was a limited offering of Lionel MPC and post war based trains, it very different today, we have track systems like Ross Track that didn't exist, we have command control, a lot of new offerings instead of mostly regurgitated post war equipment, and yes, a lot more people into it (sorry, but back then, a lot of us were not into 3 rail either, and the numbers of 'hobbyists' was pretty low). Do I think this is going to become a mass hobby? No. Do I think it is going to change? Sure, because the number of people in prime hobby age is going to change, there is a huge boom behind GenX, but they are 20-30 years away from hobby times, and even then how many of them were likely to enter the hobby? Not likely as large as the baby boomer generation, but still likely to have enough to keep it going. Given that new offerings, leaving out Menards, is mostly tending towards more expensive, BTO scale equipment, we already are well beyond the mass production age.

I also wish people would stop denigrating people who are younger, comments like "instant gratification", "all they want to do is use their cell phone", "they have no attention span", is nothing more than griping because kids today are different than 'we were'.....sorry, I could give you a ton of those things said about "US" by "The Greatest Generation", we were all addicted to the boob tube, didn't think, didn't read, didn't do anything creative, 'why, when we were growing up, we had to make our own phone, a broomstick and a spaldeen could be used for so many things'...and a lot of hobbies back in the day today look a bit silly, like collecting matchbooks, or people creating giant rolls of string, or aluminum foil balls and other 'silly' hobbies,heck, how many of that generation thought 'grown men' 'playing with trains' was 'a waste of time'?

For all the kids looking for 'instant satisfaction', as people our age and younger were accused of, many kids spend a lot of  time working on things, we don't see it in the glare of 'those darn kids and their phones and video games'. There are young kids with a passion who are creating new companies, there are kids who see problems in the world and spend years trying to correct them, rather than pursuing wealth, there are kids who love music who spend many thousands of hours dedicating themselves to it, often committing at a very, very young age, into something that is tenuous at best, there are kids out there restoring old junk into beautiful things......and that is just what I have seen. There are kids out there planting trees, out there trying to save animal species, you name it, and they go at it with a passion. 

Before someone hits the panic button to get this deleted, as being 'not on topic',think about it, it is, because if we want the hobby or hobbies in general to thrive, blaming younger people or people not into it as lazy, wanting instant gratification, no focus, etc, isn't going to make them want to do this. I have seen plenty of train clubs where they complain about not having enough members, people eager to do the work, yet the the websites of the group (if they have one), and the way they treat potential newbies, especially younger people, is off putting to anyone new. If we want hobbies to thrive, if we care about them, denigrating people is no way to do this, people seeing these kind of comments aren't going to say "oh, gee, wow, my generation is viewed like this, I better take up a hobby to show them I am not like that", they are going to look at it, shake their head and say "who the heck would want to do that, what a bunch of sourpusses". 

I have no way of knowing where 3 rail O is going, any more than I can predict what the weather will be in 6 months in Spokane, Washington, my guess is it will exist, that the tension between online and local retailers is going to go through all kinds of flux, and that in this existence it likely will in some ways be the same, in others different. People in the past built more kits because that was what was out there, and a lot of RTR trains required a lot of work to make them look and run better, I wonder had we had the kind of rtr products we have today if people back then would have built as many kits or scratchbuilt, if people had the money to get someone to design and/or build a layout, many of them might have gone that route, hobbies change, model planes went from free flight gasoline flight or control line to RC, and these days electric propulsion has made big inroads. Working on a car in the old days required a pair of pliers, a set of wrenches and a hammer, to work on modern cars requires a lot more knowledge and tools to debug the systems on board, the young kids today along with different wheels and slamming the suspension reprogram the ECU on the car and various systems, it is different but still basically the same hobby. The one thing I do know is that blaming the next generation cause they aren't us, or don't have the same interests, is a sure way to help the decline of the hobby we like, that much I am sure of. 

 

Last edited by bigkid
Berkshire posted:

We're passing the modernist phase of model railroading.
Realistic layouts are reaching their end.
It happened with video games, the graphics became so good that they were perfectly realistic, and couldn't go any further.

We need to transition into the phase of post modernism, layouts that stray from the norm with realism thrown out the window in favor of aesthetic. Neon colors or spiraling towers. Impossibly tall bridges with spindly supports, cartoonish buildings decorating a lavish mountainside. Each layout will be unique in it's aesthetic with it's own unique style designated entirely by the creator.

Change needs to come

Uh...what?

Will this involve a dog named Toto?

"Make a game out of it" - hmm, interesting idea.  I wonder if MTH and Lionel sold along with their sets some type of game ideas like load/unload transport from A to B types of things for kids.  I would think kids are very interactive today and might find trains more interesting to operate if there were goals associated.  The computer games kids enjoy today have very specific goals and rewards that I could imagine a train manufacturer being able to develop using real moving trains rather than pixels on a screen.

I had no idea we were near some “bottom.” As far as


I can tell, there are plenty of new offerings from the major manufacturers every year. Certainly far more than just about anyone can afford.

Look  on Ebay and you will find an unending supply of O gauge trains from every era available. Whatever your interest, you can find it. And affordable items are still available, especially older stock. Yes, the current prices are often shockingly high, I agree;  something the manufacturers will have to deal with, or not. Some O gauge trains are indeed available through Amazon, too.

Local hobby shops are under the gun. No doubt about it, but so are virtually all brick-and-mortar retailers. We are in a new era there, too.

Change is the one constant, of course, but I don’t see the O gauge hobby as in a particularly perilous condition at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

Last edited by Dave Warburton
Berkshire posted:

We're passing the modernist phase of model railroading.
Realistic layouts are reaching their end.
It happened with video games, the graphics became so good that they were perfectly realistic, and couldn't go any further.

We need to transition into the phase of post modernism, layouts that stray from the norm with realism thrown out the window in favor of aesthetic. Neon colors or spiraling towers. Impossibly tall bridges with spindly supports, cartoonish buildings decorating a lavish mountainside. Each layout will be unique in it's aesthetic with it's own unique style designated entirely by the creator.

Change needs to come

Are you saying we need more Psychedelic layouts ?          j

EmpireBuilderDave posted:

"Make a game out of it" - hmm, interesting idea...

The Game: (with teenagers)

-  Explain to the kids how a power plant works, and what coal was/is used for, how it is crushed, then powdered to be burned etc. 

There are two separate areas- a Coal Mine in Portage, and  Power Plant in what I call "Coal City".  Each of these areas run with a 275 W ZW Between these areas are about 150 feet of track, and two loops so a "trip" can be two laps of the layout, run by a ZW-L.  The ZWs power Lion Chief and LC+ locomotives for easy control by kids. 

                                            TrackPlan Final [2)

 

- the job: Loaded coal cars of each coal grade are to be delivered:

- gondola cars to the power plant (where in my fantasy plant world they magically get rotated out of sight in the building).

- Hopper cars to be delivered to the Coal Dealer

Each set of cars get "set out" on the main line, for the mainline engine (Cab 1) to pick up, then deliver to the Power Plant section, only to be transferred to the steam switcher that serves Coal City.

This means the cars have to be loaded in order, and delivered in order.  Following that, the game can be reversed, (or the "magic five-finger switcher can re-set the cars.)

If you add at least one full lap of the section, then a pick up by the mainline engineer, another couple of laps' "trip" around the layout, followed by a drop at the Coal City mainline section, then a delivery by the switcher- it is a challenge.

IF it's too easy, or as the kids get better at it- you add in a car order system, and or add additional industries to serve.  There is also a brewery, a cabinet factory, and an elevator supply business w/ sidings.


Suggestions from those w/ operating experience are welcome.

 

 

 

Attachments

Images (1)
  • TrackPlan Final (2): Rough drawing of final layout.
Last edited by Mike Wyatt

Everybody's got an opinion on this subject so here's mine.

We, the participants of this forum, can be ambassadors or do all the outreach we want but regardless of how much we do, we will not be able to grow the hobby all by ourselves, nor is it our responsibility to do so. It is the manufacturers who need to do this with good quality, technologically advanced products at prices the general public will be willing to pay. But they need to go even further. What is needed for real growth, one that will fuel new products and cause more manufacturers to enter the market (and they will if they think they can make a buck) is a significant technological leap.

The best example I can think of is Drone model aircraft. Remote controlled helicopters and airplanes have been around for years and years but they were really difficult to learn how to fly. I should know. I'm a real pilot and I had a hard time flying RC planes and for helicopters it was practically impossible. It was the relatively recent advent of the more easily controlled quad-copter drones that caused that hobby to explode, so much so that the FAA has now gotten involved to regulate it. There needs to be a similar leap in technology for model trains, regardless of the scale. Sending control signals and power over the track, isn’t going to cut it with the general public. Battery powered trains and RC just might do the trick.    

xrayvizhen posted:

 Sending control signals and power over the track, isn’t going to cut it with the general public. Battery powered trains and RC just might do the trick.    

Regardless of how a train is powered or controlled,  it is always a captive of it's tracks, unlike R/C cars, trucks, planes, drones or boats, which are free to roam virtually anywhere.  You still have to put down tracks somewhere.

If there is no interest in trains or railroading, wireless remote controls and battery power alone are not going to interest folks into model railroading, regardless of scale.

Rusty

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OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Ste 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

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