Have to tear down layout

Vinny,

Sorry to hear about your layout, but am glad to hear your wife is okay.

Guess I don't really understand why the layout would have to be removed to replace a garage door? Is the layout in the garage near the door?

Could you maybe post a picture or tow?

Jim

My advice to get your layout going again: Do a little-at-a-time. If you do 5% a day, over 30 days you get 150%. So, you can stretch it out. Mark

If you look at garage doors, you will see that they consist of 4 or 5 long narrow sections, that are simply attached to each other by typically 4 or 5 metal hinges, at the top an bottom of each section.  The "bolts" in the hinges are not bolts.  They are simply hex headed drive screws, that can be easily removed using a medium powered electric drill.

I see no reason why the damaged door could not be removed section by section, by removing the connecting hinges and the roller wheels that are attached to each side of the section.

As far as installing the new door, I would assume that it could be installed the same way, long section by long section.  I can't imaging that they would bolt all of the pieces together to create the huge door, and then try to wrestle that door up into the door tracks.

Given this, I really see no reason why a huge amount of space would be required to remove and install the doors.

My advice:   Clean up the garage so that you are providing as much work space next to the door as possible.  Then call a new contractor, show him the work space, and tell him that you know it will be a pain in the butt for him to remove and install the doors with the lesser space, but you are glad to pay him for his extra time.  Then tell him to give you a fixed quote.

The problem with 90% of Contractors is that they just want to do the same thing over and over again, using the cheapest and most uneducated workers, and the cheapest materials they can get by with, in the least amount of time, and move on.

If you call enough contractors, you will find one who will actually study the problem view it as a challenge, quote you a price, and bring out good workers.

Also, if a contractor tells you that it is impossible to do, then ask him to show you why.

But, don't be cheap about it.   When you want high quality or difficult work done, you have to pay for it.   

I was once remodeling a bathroom in my home, that had a metal tub in it.   I wanted a new tub.  Three contractors told me that it was "impossible" to remove the old tub, without tearing out 6 tiers of tiles all of the way around the three walled sides of the old tub, and lifting the entire tub out.   They all said that it was a very difficult two man job, and that all of that tile would have to be replaced.

The next day, by myself, I went into the bathroom, removed ONE row of tiles around the top edge of the tub to get a little wiggle room, and then used an angle grinder with a metal cut-off wheel  to cut it into three separate pieces, cutting it crosswise.

I then took a crowbar, and hammered its sharp edge  under each of the three sections, until I could lift each one up at the exposed edge.  I then dragged each section out of the bathroom, by myself, and threw it in the back yard.  I was 60 years old at the time.

It took me all of two hours to do this, and it cost me nothing.

Moral of the story: Don't believe what Bubba tells you, just because he has a hammer hanging from his belt.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

@Vinny26 posted:

It took me ten years to build.   The other day my wife crashed into the garage.  Thank God she is OK.   Smashed in the garage door.    To replace it they need room to work.    Half the layout needs to be cut out.   Accessories, buildings, track all have to be ripped out.     I’m 73.   I don’t know what to do.   I’d like to rebuild, but I don’t have the energy anymore.  Anyone had a similar choice?      What to do!

Vinny,

If this is an independent contractor get rid of him.  There are places that just do garage doors.  That is their only business.  Call one of them.  If you gave the contractor money for a deposit tell him you want your money back unless you agreed to take a massive loss on a valuable collection in writing.  It will hold up in small claims court as well (which is free).

If all else fails, I don't know what size it is; but if you know someone with a storage space and / or a truck have them help you move it there temporarily.

Some of those Prima donnas really tick me off.

John

A qualified garage door installer should need no more than a couple of feet in front of the door to work. If the tracks were not damaged it's a simple job. Call around until you find someone who understands your issues.

If you are luck you may find a new train buddy along the way.

Does the layout take up the entire length and width of the garage? If not cant it just be shifted out of the way? I just installed garage doors in my house and you just need the room to install the tracks on both sides on the ceiling.  Can the table support a person's weight? Lots of variables here that without knowing it's hard to answer. A few pics would definitely help.

Here are some pictures

Close off the garage door opening with a wall.  Would be fairly simple to frame in the garage door opening, have an exterior door framed in.  If you are not putting a car in there you are not using the door anyway. Not sure what climate you are in, or how many garage doors you have, but could now add heat or AC and have a much better train room.

@Vinny26 posted:

Here are some pictures

Vinny, so sorry to hear about your situation. However, what everyone here is telling you is spot on - get another professional to look at this and give you an opinion. Ironically, when my wife was in her 40s, she did the exact same thing as your wife and backed her Jeep right into our hurricane proof garage, doing far more damage than in your images (the jeep barely had a scratch- tough vehicle).  I felt so bad for her because she really felt horrible about doing it, but people get distracted and accidents happen. I called a top rated garage door professional down here and had a new hurricane proof garage installed. He was able to use the existing tracks and just refit the panels into the front of the garage. I didn’t even need to move the cars out while he did the repair.  Yeah, it set me back a couple of grand because the new south Florida hurricane code required more substantial panels, but it was all done in less than a day.  Maybe the current guy you have is just worried about liability if he breaks something on your layout, but based on my experience with far more extensive damage and a larger sized 2 car garage, it did not require me to clear out the interior of my garage for the repair.  

Edmund has given you some excellent advice here. 

At my house at the farm, I had a very large very clean garage, with a rickety garage door.   The space was just too nice to use for parking cars.

I removed the garage door, and framed in the opening.  It was not that difficult, and it is done all of the time.

Since the concrete slab of your garage, at the door opening , is probably slanted, and slanting away from the door opening, you will need to place a long "shim" onto the floor of the garage at the opening, so that when you put the frame of the wall on it, the frame sits flat.

I solved this problem by using  a long piece of real cedar siding, which is of course is not flat but wider at the top than at the bottom.   I used waterproof glue to glue tar paper on the bottom of it, then put this down in the opening, with the wider edge facing out and the thinner edge facing in.  I drilled holes through the shim and into the concrete floor, and then I screwed it down.  On top of this, you will need to have a piece of treated lumber as the based plate for your wall.

None of this is hard to do if you use a real carpenter, instead of a "house framer" whose only tools are a nail gun and a circular saw.

If properly done, it is easy to frame in a large house door for entry and exit.

And, if properly done, it is not that hard to remove the whole thing is someone who buys the house later decides that he just has to have a garage door there.

By the way, I hope you have called your insurance company.  Home owners insurance typically covers damage to your house that you accidentally cause, subject to the deductible.  Even if the insurance company only wants to pay for the cost of installing a new garage door, you can have them pay the money to you for that, and then do what you want.

And, I believe I would relocate my wife, who damaged the door, before I would relocate my train layout.  :-)

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

I sure wouldn't let that idiot contractor tear down my layout to fix that!   I agree with the other advice, get another quote!

I agree with the others, it's probably better to get an estimate from another contractor. Preferably a company that specializes in garage doors. (providing the insurance co. is cool with that, too)

Get some of the furniture sliders to put under the legs of the layout. Move the layout outside for the door repair. Then slide the layout back into the garage - INTACT - a one or two man job

From what I’m looking at it didn’t hit the layout and it can be replaced without loosing it

You've already heard this multiple times, but I agree with the others. You should get an opinion from another contractor that specializes in garage doors.

Layout I am constructing also in garage, I feel so bad for both your wife and you, what happened is one of my biggest fears.  We are both average drivers at best and both easily distracted. As far as energy goes, perhaps you can find a a youngster. I have made two train buddies in the isles of Hobby Lobby. Both guys were there with their little kids. We exchanged numbers and invited him and family to my house. His kids ran trains and we drank beer. You will find a path, and the advice on forum is just a start.

also my mom did this growing up 4 different times, the first time it happened I thought my parents would divorce, by 4th time he had fixing it down to an art. It something we laughed about later.

I agree with all the others, that contractor is not the one you want on this job. You want the guy who recognizes how important it is to go the extra steps and will work on scheduling.

Vinny's door looks like a "flip out", not a roll up. Either way, if you don't need to open that door you could ask the next contractor to just hang new door panels and not worry about making it operate for now.

@Strap Hanger posted:

Vinny, so sorry to hear about your situation. However, what everyone here is telling you is spot on - get another professional to look at this and give you an opinion. Ironically, when my wife was in her 40s, she did the exact same thing as your wife and backed her Jeep right into our hurricane proof garage, doing far more damage than in your images (the jeep barely had a scratch- tough vehicle).  I felt so bad for her because she really felt horrible about doing it, but people get distracted and accidents happen. I called a top rated garage door professional down here and had a new hurricane proof garage installed. He was able to use the existing tracks and just refit the panels into the front of the garage. I didn’t even need to move the cars out while he did the repair.  Yeah, it set me back a couple of grand because the new south Florida hurricane code required more substantial panels, but it was all done in less than a day.  Maybe the current guy you have is just worried about liability if he breaks something on your layout, but based on my experience with far more extensive damage and a larger sized 2 car garage, it did not require me to clear out the interior of my garage for the repair.  

I’m in South Fla too.   They all say they need more room to work.   Who did you use?

@Vinny26 posted:

I’m in South Fla too.   They all say they need more room to work.   Who did you use?

https://www.google.com/search?...luc3RhbGxlcnMoAA;mv:

John

@Vinny26 posted:

I’m in South Fla too.   They all say they need more room to work.   Who did you use?

Wow, what a small world. My situation occurred over 10 years ago, so i don't know if these guys are still in business or owned by the same people. However, this is their sticker from the back of my garage door, They were fabulous -

Instead of using one of the overhead motors and belts/chains to power the door, you can simply install a side mounted torque motor, that mounts right on the inside front wall of your garage, next too the door, at the top of the door.  The side mounted motors can be mounted on either side of the door.     This totally eliminates all of the "hanging down" junk in the ceiling of your garage, so all of that stuff can be removed.

You will need to have a power source near the side mounted motor to power the motor.  If you have an electric outlet nearby, then they can run the wire to that outlet. 

If you do not have a nearby outlet, then it is very easy for an electrician to go to one of the existing wall outlets in your garage, convert it to an square protruding box outlet, and then run a wire from that outlet, in a small piece of conduit, up the wall and over to where you want to mount the motor.    The wire will then go into a new protruding outlet box, which will create a new outlet near the motor.   The motor can simply plug into the new outlet.

You will be amazed how much "bigger" your garage ceiling looks when you remove all of center-mounted, hanging down, junk.

Mannyrock

@Geojr posted:

Get some of the furniture sliders to put under the legs of the layout. Move the layout outside for the door repair. Then slide the layout back into the garage - INTACT - a one or two man job

Search for '3 wheel dolly' - ones that are suitable for moving a train layout can be found for about $5 each at places like Harbor Freight and Menards (don't get suckered into paying more than $10 each).  Depending on the size of your layout, 4 to 8 of these should allow you to easily roll your layout the few feet that are needed to allow access.  (Depending on how the layout is constructed, you might need to gradually jack it up to get the casters under it.)

Also, contact your insurance company.  If it is really necessary to perform surgery to provide access, your homeowner's policy should cover the cost of that.  It's similar to having a plumbing or electrical problem that requires the removal of kitchen cabinets.

Good luck with the process.

Had a situation short while ago that needed an island layout moved three feet.  Had a buddy, his wife and teen age kids come over.  We all picked up the layout and moved it three feet.  Then later on moved it back.

Maybe call some pall bearers??

@Tom Tee posted:

Had a situation short while ago that needed an island layout moved three feet.  Had a buddy, his wife and teen age kids come over.  We all picked up the layout and moved it three feet.  Then later on moved it back.

Maybe call some pall bearers??

I will consider this idea

Strange for a Californian, but I actually put my car in the garage! I got in one day, and forgetting the door, backed into it.

The installer arrived and said he could replace the bent section for $300 plus labor, or he could do the free fix immediately.

“What’s the free fix?, I asked.

“Close the door,” he answered.

I closed the door from inside, he was outside.

There was a sudden loud thud like crash as his boot heel connected with the door panel just one time. I examined his work and deemed it nearly perfect.

“That’s the free fix and I do it all the time,”  he answered as he returned to his truck and drove off.

We installed a pool table in our finished basement. Soon after, our basement flooded (sump pump and battery backup failed). They wanted to disassemble and move the pool table. Rather than doing that, I used a floor jack to lift one side of the table at a time and put it on moving dollies. Once the cleanup was complete, and carpet was being installed, I moved it back into position and leveled it out. Way less expensive.

This is NOT intended to be critical of the OP in any way - stuff happens...

This should serve as a reminder to all of us to plan ahead when building our layouts - make sure that future maintenance to household systems and fixtures will be possible.  Plumbing, electrical, HVAC, doors, windows, etc. - they all need work eventually.

The other thing I did is put my layout on wheels so I can move it. I’m planning a rebuild to make it modular and therefore easier to disassemble and move when needed.

If I ever have to move my layout, and I sincerely hope that never happens, I'll chop the two posts that go through it and then just put all the legs on wheeled dolly's, I'm certainly not taking it apart!

Please find another garage door contractor! Sounds and looks like a simple door replacement. I've been in the construction business for 45 years. Things sure have changed....

Whatever you do, DON'T tear down your layout. It's a heartbreaking experience.