Help with Disassembly of Premier ES33AC

There are two of the speaker screws also holding the shell. Not sure why the handrails need to be removed, though.

The manual page 33 https://mthtrains.com/sites/de...ction/20dl19404i.pdf

Also, they are near the fuel tank speaker housing but not the screws holding the tank to the frame.

Also, the exploded parts diagram may help https://mthtrains.com/sites/de...loded/20dl19404e.pdf

Gee, guys, howze come I didn't see that. Must be senile!

Thanks!

@John H posted:

There are two of the speaker screws also holding the shell. Not sure why the handrails need to be removed, though.

John, this is a "scale wheels" model which means a fixed pilot and full length handrails.  At least I'm smart enough to pull the bottom attachment points before trying to pull the carbody, if not smart enough to find the instruction page.

I found this on my premier ES44 which is dead also and concerning.

@Rapid Transit Holmes posted:

John, this is a "scale wheels" model which means a fixed pilot and full length handrails.  At least I'm smart enough to pull the bottom attachment points before trying to pull the carbody, if not smart enough to find the instruction page.

And I wasn't smart enough to catch the "scale wheels" part. My apologies.

If memory serves me, you have to unscrew and remove the pilots too, but I could be thinking of atlas diesels.

There should be a screw on top of the truck holding down that square threaded insert that the pickup roller threads into, but they seem to frequently forget one or more of them. Its one of the standard MTH screws an M2.5 or M3 screw. If you're screwing in the rollers, then once you get the roller started it'll stay put.  Its a problem when you dont put the rollers in because it still flops around in there.  

Shell off, unscrew the motor, push the insert back in and start the roller screw while you hold the insert in place.  If you're 3 railing it for good, then you shouldnt have to worry about the missing retainer screw.

@Boilermaker1 posted:

If memory serves me, you have to unscrew and remove the pilots too, but I could be thinking of atlas diesels.

There should be a screw on top of the truck holding down that square threaded insert that the pickup roller threads into, but they seem to frequently forget one or more of them. Its one of the standard MTH screws an M2.5 or M3 screw. If you're screwing in the rollers, then once you get the roller started it'll stay put.  Its a problem when you dont put the rollers in because it still flops around in there.  

Shell off, unscrew the motor, push the insert back in and start the roller screw while you hold the insert in place.  If you're 3 railing it for good, then you shouldnt have to worry about the missing retainer screw.

Having worked on my fleet of MTH diesels, I'm familiar with the retention screw in question.  Having removed the two relevant fuel tank screws and tugged at a completely uncooperative carbody, I just now speculated that the pilots must be removed, too.  While removing the various screws, I twisted the lead (offending) truck enough to see the little third rail fitting floating free as the breeze inside the carbody.

This being my first ES44, I now see that there are two motor screws per truck and one is located under the third rail pickup.  Therefore, omission of the retention screw won't work.  However, I just happen to have a spare one in the pile...

Thanks for confirmation of pilot removal being the missing link!  Back to the shop I go!!!

@Boilermaker1 posted:

If memory serves me, you have to unscrew and remove the pilots too, but I could be thinking of atlas diesels.

Boilermaker, You and my supposition were right, the pilots do have to be removed.  The retaining screw was missing, therefore, I pirated from my parts pile and used it because I didn't have enough hands to manage the roller spring, mounting screw and the loose motor all at once.  Determining the orientation of the square "insert" was a new experience, in the ES44 the tab goes toward the front of the truck, not sideways as in days of old.

Why does the manufacturer put so much grease in the gear boxes?  It always squirts out of the sides and makes a heck of a mess.  The instructions state that oil and grease should be applied sparingly, maybe the manufacturer should read 'em.

Once the roller was finally mounted, I put it on the test track and nothing happened for about 15 minutes.  When the TIU was able to find the ES44 it started to come back to life but did so only in stages.  I presume that this was caused by the PS3 capacitor(s) being charged.

Thanks, again, for your help!

@87smokemetalic posted:

I found this on my premier ES44 which is dead also and concerning.

You got the "hi rail wheels" model, which differs somewhat from my version.  Unlike mine, your third rail roller installation appears to be in place, however, it looks like you've got some bare wire at the shrink tubed connector which could contact the frame.  Is that your issue?

Rapid , I noticed your model was scale wheels afterwards.
  My model will need to go in for repair as it’s out of my diagnosis abilities. I’m waiting til after York show when I can figure who to ship it to.

@87smokemetalic posted:

Rapid , I noticed your model was scale wheels afterwards.
  My model will need to go in for repair as it’s out of my diagnosis abilities. I’m waiting til after York show when I can figure who to ship it to.

I think @Rapid Transit Holmes has already diagnosed your problem.  Check that bare wire in your photo.

Pretty sure that was the cause, it’s figuring out what components were damaged due to that. Lol

Smoke,

My unit experienced several dead shorts during my initial tests, due to the 3rd rail lead connecting with the frame, but appears to have suffered no permanent damage as a result.

I suggest that you effectively insulate the exposed wire, reassemble the locomotive without replacing the carbody (shell) and give it another try.  I was disappointed by my efforts, initially, because it took about 15 minutes to recharge the capacitors required for the DCS to "awaken".  If insulating the exposed wire prevents another dead short, let the locomotive recharge for at least 15 minutes before trying DCS operations.

GOOD LUCK!