Help with new BNSF SD70ACe Legacy Bluetooth... Problrm solved, thanks

Big Boy,

     Make sure the Lionel Bluetooth Appt on your cell phone is off. I don’t think you can control the engine using Legacy or TMCC if the Bluetooth is on. Oh go out and buy a Legacy Base unit and upgrade from TMCC. You will be happy you did.

JohnB

Have you tried putting it in program and changing the address.  Also try the engine reset instructions in the book, as they say sometimes the engines loose their minds.   Lastly make sure the Bluetooth is OFF on the phone, I believe it can override the Legacy signal.   All I got, hope you get it running

Thanks John, I swear we tried that. I even cycled the track power, in the hopes of taking over control. The manual and various YouTube videos, including Lionel's, say that you should be able to have both active at the same time. 

As for the Legacy base, I have one, but I've never gotten it to work right. I'm quite happy and committed to TMCC, with 9 Cab-1's. I just need my trains to go, stop, change directions, and have operating couplers. Sound, smoke and crewtalk don't really interest me.

Reading RR posted:

Have you tried putting it in program and changing the address.  Also try the engine reset instructions in the book, as they say sometimes the engines loose their minds.   Lastly make sure the Bluetooth is OFF on the phone, I believe it can override the Legacy signal.   All I got, hope you get it running

No, I didn't try changing the address. I can move it to a different number temporarily, but I really want it back on 87 where I thought I had it. Hmmmm, maybe I don't. The horn blew, but I never tried it with the remote. We went right to Bluetooth.

OK, I'll leave my wife upstairs so there no chance of confusion, and see if I can talk to it after a reprograming.

Blue tooth has a long range.  Actually turn it off on the phone or better yet turn the phone with the app off while you test the system again, turn the layout off and on then try the TMCC again, I think it will work then.  I cannot run TMCC/Leg and Blue at the same time, so I removed the app since I like the remotes better.

This was one complaint I heard at Trainfest when I was talking to a member of the Midwest TCA Layout group, also don't have an orange lionechief remote on.......... their needs to be an on / off switch for Bluetooth on the locos.

Hi Mike, long time no see. Our paths haven't crossed much on the forum lately. I don't own a universal remote, just a couple dedicated ones for LC+ engines. Most of my stuff is TMCC anyway, but last year I went bonkers with new locos with BT.  Well, you do and you don't want an on / off switch. I can see arguments both ways. If it worked the way Lionel said it's supposed to, then it wouldn't be necessary. However, this is quirky at best.

Thanks guys, I'm armed with some things to try. I'll head down in a little bit, and let you know how it goes. I doubt there's anything really wrong with it, there's just a learning curve with this new technology.  

Recently I have been more involved in my NMRA Division, yesterday I have been made the Intern Superintendent of the division until the April meeting, Of course I will be running for the position in the elections.

On the topic at hand......... I would want the option to turn off the blue tooth receiving mode on the loco, it would stink to have some one at a show to turn on the app and take over your loco.......  it is a new can o-worms......

Cool Mike, I'm the assistant superintendent of my division. I was "railroaded" into the position.. I'll be expected to move up to top dog in a couple years. I have to make up a clinic on soldering for our February meeting.

I see your point about the switch. I never thought about being hijacked at a show. 

I have one of the new SD70Ace models with Bluetooth. I use a Cab1L with a Legacy Base and I also have a universal remote too. One time the engine went straight to the universal remote and I could not get it to move with the Cab1L. I turned off the universal remote and track power. Turned the power back on and had no issues with using the Cab1L. The app with my phone was never in the equation.

OOOH, I just got a Bluetooth loco, I should try it out 

Big Boy did you get it running?

I'm sorry, I never made it back downstairs. I ended up taking a nap, and it was suddenly 8:30. It'll be Saturday now. I'll let you know.

My spirit of UP operates both Legacy and Bluetooth simultaneously

Matt Makens posted:

My spirit of UP operates both Legacy and Bluetooth simultaneously

That's actually what it's supposed to do.

I could hook up the cab1 and see what it does

Sure, go for it. I have a feeling that my problem is just as simple as reprogramming the engine. The horn sounded, so I thought I had it, but I never tried it with the remote. We just jumped right into the Bluetooth. I have to say, it ran around the lower deck really smoothly on BT.

It's the same with the cab1, takes commands from both the cab1 and the bluetooth simultaneously

Run her on 99, thats the universal address but everything will run on that too

Good to know that it works. I seriously doubt it's a defect in mine. I'll get it.

It's nice having a civil conversation with you again, Matt. 

Im too old to be a perpetual A-hole.

I would call that growing up. Congratulations.

If I'm grown up, does that mean I cant play with trains?

Matt Makens posted:

If I'm grown up, does that mean I cant play with trains?

Oh, not at all. It just means you can have the nice expensive ones.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Cool Mike, I'm the assistant superintendent of my division. I was "railroaded" into the position.. I'll be expected to move up to top dog in a couple years. I have to make up a clinic on soldering for our February meeting.

I see your point about the switch. I never thought about being hijacked at a show. 

Been to shows where Lionel engines on layouts have been hijacked with TMCC and Legacy remotes. Apparently funny for that individual, probably not so much for the owner of the train or those it hit. 

BobbyD posted:

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Cool Mike, I'm the assistant superintendent of my division. I was "railroaded" into the position.. I'll be expected to move up to top dog in a couple years. I have to make up a clinic on soldering for our February meeting.

I see your point about the switch. I never thought about being hijacked at a show. 

Been to shows where Lionel engines on layouts have been hijacked with TMCC and Legacy remotes. Apparently funny for that individual, probably not so much for the owner of the train or those it hit. 

Well, those hijackings are just among fellow hobbyists. With this Bluetooth access, the general public could do it, and they might not be as friendly.

LC+2.0 will have a Bluetooth on/off switch and we're planning to implement the switch into Legacy locos later this year as well. I'm not sure yet which will be the first Legacy loco with the switch, but it will prevent the possibilities of 'hijacking'

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

BobbyD posted:

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Cool Mike, I'm the assistant superintendent of my division. I was "railroaded" into the position.. I'll be expected to move up to top dog in a couple years. I have to make up a clinic on soldering for our February meeting.

I see your point about the switch. I never thought about being hijacked at a show. 

Been to shows where Lionel engines on layouts have been hijacked with TMCC and Legacy remotes. Apparently funny for that individual, probably not so much for the owner of the train or those it hit. 

Well, those hijackings are just among fellow hobbyists. With this Bluetooth access, the general public could do it, and they might not be as friendly.

"Friendly' huh? Seeing some of the sarcastic, condescending, and "Kool Aid" drinker posts here not sure you're right.  Even not deliberate, a head on between two $2,000 engines isn't gonna end well!

I have expensive ones, you should see my GGD Empire Builder, all 4 locos and 17 cars

So what can I do now to prevent the possibility of "hijacking"?

I think having an on/off switch for Bluetooth is a good idea and should have been there from the beginning. 

In addition, I have seen locos hijacked at modular shows running Legacy.  I've always thought some security should have been in the Legacy code when connecting to a command base.  I wonder if that is possible?  When connecting to the Legacy base why couldn't it prompt you for a 4 digit PIN?  Of course this should have the functionality to be disabled so it isn't an annoyance at home.  Just brainstorming...

Charlie, I don't think there's any way to protect Legacy. It sounds like a lot of reengineering. The situation only arises when you have multiple bases in close proximity at shows. A single remote could be talking more than one base. Even then, both layouts would have to be using locomotives assigned to the same channel. A little coordination is all that is needed to avoid accidental hijacking. There's no accounting for deliberate pranking. I actually did a show years ago where I coordinated with another group using TMCC. No problems.

The thing with Bluetooth is anyone can download the app and potentially wreak havoc at a public event. I can just picture expensive trains careening through curves to their deaths at the hands of a clever malicious person. Mike is right, there does need to be a BT off switch. We should bring this up with Dave Olson at Lionel. It should be an easy fix.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

 We should bring this up with Dave Olson at Lionel. It should be an easy fix.

 

Up above here Elliot, Dave states they will be incorporating an on/off switch for Bluetooth this year.  Let's hope it makes it into the product soon.

Your right it's the deliberate pranksters that can cause an issue, even with Legacy system.

Ive had problems with guys on the club layout assigning an engine ID of 99 to a loco. Well that's the universal "run all" address and after some explaining they finally realized they cant use that address. It took me all weekend to figure out why my trains were running so weird. I dont know how big of an issue it really is to have you locos hijacked at a show and since I only have the one Bluetooth loco, im no overy concerned with it but it would be nice to shut off Bluetooth

Not sure how I missed Dave's post there. Guess I wasn't quite awake this morning. Well that's good news for all you guys who do shows. My show days are over, I have enough home layout to deal with.

Matt, by now channel 99 should be common knowledge, but I suppose there will always be people who don't get the memo.

I don’t have any of the Bluetooth locos so I’m askibg this more than stating it, but

steppibg away from trains for a minute,  and  looking at the Bluetooth protocol, it requires that the two devices be paired together before they can inter operate. Once paired, it’s extremely difficult to hijack that pairing. Again this is for true Bluetooth protocol. 

Now back to the trains. Does one pair an engine to the remote (universal or mobile device) before you are allowed to run it?  I should probably go read the Lionel documentation on this (assuming that it is available online). 

If a train is paired to a Bluetooth remote, it should not allow a second connection to another Bluetooth remote. 

Problems could exist while running TMCC or Legacy if the engine is always in “pairing mode” looking for a Bluetooth remote. Is there any specific action required to put the train in pairing mode?

While the pairing part is true, the hijacking scenario could occur when you are operating using a Lionel remote of any kind. Since both the remote and a BT device can be used simultaneously to control the locomotive, this is where you could run into trouble. I don't know if it's possible to pair BT on the fly, or if the loco needs to be stationary. It would be an interesting test.

Now there would be a warning that a BT device has connected, because the horn sounds when it pairs. But in a show environment with a lot of noise and distractions, it might get missed. For now, maybe the safest thing to do at shows, would be use the BT to control the train, locking out hijackers. 

Reading RR posted:

Have you tried putting it in program and changing the address.  Also try the engine reset instructions in the book, as they say sometimes the engines loose their minds.   Lastly make sure the Bluetooth is OFF on the phone, I believe it can override the Legacy signal.   All I got, hope you get it running

I finally got back downstairs to deal with it this morning. You were right, all I did was program it again. I didn't even change the channel. For whatever reason, it didn't take the first time, even though the horn blew when  I pressed the set button.

Very pleased, it runs really nice.

Glad to here it is running nice.