How best to mix a ZW-L with two ZW-C transformers

Can you explain a little more about what you are trying to do? The ZW-C is actually more powerful than a ZW-L. You can have 4 full 180 watt power districts off a single ZW-C. The ZW-L limits the max load of the unit to 620 watts. 

It seems you are asking about track ID assignments through Legacy command control. This would normally be used for conventional running. I believe the 9 ID limitation was a TMCC limitation. Some ZW-C units have updated firmware for Legacy. I don't know if this supports the extended Legacy version 1.4 ID range, but it is worth a try.

You may run into another issue though. The ZW-C B & C handles start track voltage at the maximum handle setting and the remote can reduce the voltage from there. This is not designed for conventional running, but instead for lights and accessories. The A & D handles start the voltage at zero. I believe the ZW-L has the same limitation. 

By the way, none of this matters if you are running all command mode. You don't need to assign IDs to the ZW units at all and can use all four outputs without any issues.

George

Also, there is no issue mixing ZW-L and ZW-C units for different power districts.

Have you thought about using block power controllers for your yards to switch the power source controlling a particular block?

Yes my question is mostly about track assignment as I will run a mix of conventional legacy and tmcc.   I have been told I can’t go above 9 assignments on the zw-c.   At some point I would add DCS.   I would like to continue to run trains on the mainlines while doing yard work.   I could use the 6 handled assignments for running the mains.   I do have a Tpc 400 that I could use as well for a steep grade    While I have a legacy system I have never run it.   Only zw-c for tmcc so I may not understand my options for assignments when I add legacy.    I recall something like assign track 0 and then address by engine for both legacy and tmcc on those tracks but no conventional rerunning?     

STACKM746,

I am going to lead you down a different path for your layout.  Get rid of your ZW-C,  Invest in both a DCS and a Z4K with a Side Receiver for running your Conventional Engines.   In this manner you can run your Conventional Engines and your TMCC Engines via remote control at the same time, using both the ZW-L & the Z4K to power the operation.

If you want to keep the ZW-C use it for a power source for your Legacy.  Connecting the DCS and the Legacy together, you have the ultimate layout control.  The Z4K with Side Receiver opens Conventional Engine Control options, via the TR mode on the DCS, unavailable with just the ZW-C set up.

Have fun!

PCRR/Dave

Stackm746 posted:

Yes my question is mostly about track assignment as I will run a mix of conventional legacy and tmcc.   I have been told I can’t go above 9 assignments on the zw-c.   At some point I would add DCS.   I would like to continue to run trains on the mainlines while doing yard work.   I could use the 6 handled assignments for running the mains.   I do have a Tpc 400 that I could use as well for a steep grade    While I have a legacy system I have never run it.   Only zw-c for tmcc so I may not understand my options for assignments when I add legacy.    I recall something like assign track 0 and then address by engine for both legacy and tmcc on those tracks but no conventional rerunning?     

Oh my Greg! I was responding on my iPad and didn't even realize it was you! 

If you don't have the manual to the ZW-C, here is a link... https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/72-2982-250.pdf  TMCC operations start at page 10. It will explain how to assign the TR ID's. I have never done this with Legacy, but it should work the same way. Yes, assigning ID #0 resets the ZW to manual mode. The TMCC remote controls the ZW-C in command mode just fine for conventional running by remote. The Legacy system should work the same way. 

The ZW-L manual talks about assigning addresses from 10 to 95 with Legacy version 1.4. This may work on the ZW-C as well. Not sure you will find much documentation on using Legacy with the ZW-C since they are from different eras. 

One caution, some folks have had problems running the ZW-C with Legacy. There was a PIC microcontroller upgrade for the the ZW-C for Legacy operations. I don't think they are available anymore. It will depend on what version firmware is on the PIC in your ZW-C. 

To your original question, yes, you can mix a ZW-C and ZW-L in the way you described and assign the ZW-L handles to the higher order IDs.

Your old pal George.

BTW, the B and C handles do not operate on the ZWL same as the ZWC...or I would have one 

Hi George didn’t know u were into trains. Is there a way to determine what version of PIC the zw-c is on?   Thx for the help

Stackm746 posted:

Hi George didn’t know u were into trains. Is there a way to determine what version of PIC the zw-c is on?   Thx for the help

Hi Greg,

Here is an article from MartyE that discusses it. 

http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/PWCZWLegacy.htm

The PIC on the motherboard would be labeled S01.HEX. You would have to take the cover off the ZW-C. Be careful if you do when removing it and putting it back on. The bell buttons and direction levers are a bit delicate. 

Lionel had the PIC listed on their website, but I'm pretty sure they're gone now. Here's the link anyway...

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...mp;resultsPerPage=75

Marty was told that not all ZW-C units had the Legacy HALT problem. I don't know much more than that. It won't hurt the ZW to try it, since you have the Legacy unit.

Blank 16C65A PIC microchips are available from electronic parts dealers and eprom programmers are cheap. I wonder if the code could be copied from someone's to a blank one?

George

Where/who did the pics the first time? Lionel should be able to help here..in addition to everything else they are doing 

cjack posted:

Where/who did the pics the first time? Lionel should be able to help here..in addition to everything else they are doing 

Chuck,

Marty got the PICs directly from Lionel in 2008. It's worth asking if they could make some. I can't imagine it would be that big of a deal if they still had the code.  I don't need any; I don't plan on running Legacy and have TMCC to address my ZW-C's.

George

cjack posted:

BTW, the B and C handles do not operate on the ZWL same as the ZWC...or I would have one 

How do they operate?

I am very happy with my two ZW-C's. Not sure I need a ZW-L but I want to learn what is out there. It would be great to know if Legacy can address the ZW-C with the 10 - 95 channel numbers.

George

George S posted:

cjack posted:

BTW, the B and C handles do not operate on the ZWL same as the ZWC...or I would have one 

How do they operate?

I am very happy with my two ZW-C's. Not sure I need a ZW-L but I want to learn what is out there. It would be great to know if Legacy can address the ZW-C with the 10 - 95 channel numbers.

George

The B and C outputs go directly to what the handles are set when power is turned on.

cjack posted:

George S posted:

cjack posted:

BTW, the B and C handles do not operate on the ZWL same as the ZWC...or I would have one 

How do they operate?

I am very happy with my two ZW-C's. Not sure I need a ZW-L but I want to learn what is out there. It would be great to know if Legacy can address the ZW-C with the 10 - 95 channel numbers.

George

The B and C outputs go directly to what the handles are set when power is turned on.

Isn't that the way the ZW-C works? I have not tried it, but that's what the manual says.

George

George S posted:

cjack posted:

George S posted:

cjack posted:

BTW, the B and C handles do not operate on the ZWL same as the ZWC...or I would have one 

How do they operate?

I am very happy with my two ZW-C's. Not sure I need a ZW-L but I want to learn what is out there. It would be great to know if Legacy can address the ZW-C with the 10 - 95 channel numbers.

George

The B and C outputs go directly to what the handles are set when power is turned on.

Isn't that the way the ZW-C works? I have not tried it, but that's what the manual says.

George

Oh sorry, I was answering how the ZW-C operates. The ZW-L B and C outputs start at zero and you have to raise them with the controller. I like the way the ZW-C operates for Legacy operation.