How does the Lionel Commodore Vanderbilt Trigger It's Chuff

Chris

 

  The only thing I can tell you is Ive upgraded chuffs on Lionel engines from 1999 to 2008 and they all have cherry switches. Whats the six digit item number, sometimes you can look up parts with that number

 

Alex

There is a cherry switch which is moved by the same lever that pushes on the smoke piston. The lever is moved by the piston rod like a Post War steam engine. Not as easy to modify as say a cam on a driver axle. You should be able to add a reed switch and magnet to a tender wheel to get the sound but you will still be stuck with one puff per rev unless you are able to fit a fan unit in there.

 

Pete

Ahh yes Pete is totally correct, here's one I did a while back it's an older Lionel engine with a puffer unit. You can add the reed switch like I did in the video , but just like Pete said you will have only one puff per rev.

 

Link to video

https://ogrforum.com/t...tos-and-video?page=1

 

Alex

I picked up one of these a few months ago. After looking into what would be required to bring it up close to modern standards I decided I would just let it be and wait for a Legacy version.

New DC motor, new drive electronics with sound, new smoke unit. $$$ even if you do it yourself.

 

Pete

The Commodore is such a handsome locomotive its too bad that Lionel hasn't reissued it in recent years. We had one (bought new for $900) and it was such a disappointing runner. I hadn't operated it much back when new but when we started the layout I got her out and on the rails. Poor smoke, one shuff, and jerky slow speed it quickly went back on the shelf!

 

Aaaahhh    but that fantastic whistle....

Really nice whistle, however to rebuild and update takes some money and know how. You really have to love this beast to update it.

What would it be (rough estimate) to have it sent to Frank Timko for a can motor and PS2 w/smoke upgrade?

 

Or perhaps to JDS Ltd for their full treatment?

This may be a long shot but look at the plug going from the

engine to the tender. If it is a 3 prong plug then the chuff rate

can be changed by moving a jumper on a count down circuit on

the sound board in the tender. The count down circuit counts the

pulses coming from the AC motor over the center pin of the 3 

prong plug and turns the sound on and off after a number of

motor pulses.

 

Several years ago I had Train America send the motor to Timko and they put in a new smoke unit and converted the engine to DCS, I spent around $500.00 on the upgrade.

Scott Smith

I had that engine at one time and I think the chuffing is controlled by the electronics. I don't remember it having a cherry switch but I could be wrong.

Its item 43 below.

 

 

and a link to the complete parts list.

 

 

Pete

Chris:  The micro switch that is used is a  SPDT switch. It makes a contact in either position. It is used to signal the smoke unit for "puff" in one position and the sound board for "chuff" in the other position in newer units. This CV Loco unit only uses one side of the switch.  Would it be possible to  tie both outputs of the switch together to create  two pulses as the switch toggles back and forth and  possibly double your "Chuffs"?  At slow speeds, it may still not give you the  "full" desired effect, but it might be an improvement. I would think that at higher speeds, the 'chuffs" would be more frequent and might sound acceptable until a better way is found to get the four "chuffs" you are looking for - a simple fix, if it works. ( A note, with the more frequent pulses, the sound board may not be able to recover from the previous pulse quick enough if they come too close together; but it might be worth a try).

          Lionel (or was it the Chinese) used a four lobe cam for the smoke piston actuation  on one of their Post War Celebration Series locos, I think it was the Berkshire freight set.  At low speeds, it sounded great, but at full speed, it was like a tommy gun.  As far as I know, the cam is not available as a separate sale item, only on the loco chassis.  You might ask Mike Reagan if he has one in his "BONE YARD" that he could borrow it from. It would entail pulling two sets of drivers and pressing off and on of the four lob cam and then re-installing the drivers.   Food for thought.   Dennis M.

If you try and use both switch terminals basically tied together you would not send pulses to the sound board. You might hear one chuff on start up and then nothing. You would have to feed each terminal though something like "one shot" (monostable multivibrator). The time that the one shot is high would have to be shorter than 1/2 of the fastest driver rotation to get discreet pulses. Might work and the circuit is simple but you would still have only one puff per driver rotation if you keep the puffer unit.

 

Pete

The engine in question is a mechanical chuff, unless it is changed to a electronic triggered smoke unit there is only ever going to be 1 puff per revolution.

 

The switch mentioned on the unit is only for the sound chuff.

 

Jim

I changed mine to two chuffs per revolution by putting a magnet on the tender wheel and a reed switch on the tender truck. You might achieve four chuffs by using two magnets. The chuff input is a separate wire in the tether from the loco to the tender. you can disconnect the wire from the loco and hook up the wire from the reed switch. The chuffs will not be synchronized with the smoke puffs, and some people make a big deal out of that, but it didn't bother me.

RoyBoy,

 

That is the exact direction I recommend as well... 

 

Jim

It looks like the magnet in the tenders is the most likely path that we will take. Two will be better than one

I have to brag on the often-maligned Lionel C. Vanderbilt Hudson:

 

Got one of these 6 months ago at auction; low price, "wrong" color, well run-in/well

cared for - and bought primarily as part of my NYC Hudson collection.

 

Though I do not care for the old AC motor thing, this is one of those Pullmor locos

that runs so well that it can live with the new stuff and not be ashamed of itself;

considering the technology, it is a smooth, steady runner.

"Well run-in" has a lot to do with it. Also, my ex-Vandy tendered J1 5344 (it has a

PT tender now) is a nice Pullmor runner.

 

The Commodore won't "creep", but it runs slowly pretty well - and anyway, it's not a switcher. 

 

The magnet/reed switch is on the to-do list for both locos.

Since the tender wheel diameter is say 1/2 of the driver diameter and you have two trigger magnets wouldn't this in effect provide "close enough" 4 chuffs?

(All the money spent on tooling it up and just 1 chuff? Really? WOW!)

You will get four chuffs, just not four puffs. You could install a fan unit and a driver circuit triggered by the magnets if you wanted 4 puffs. All depends on how much money and time you want to spend on this engine. 

Seems to me it wouldn't take much to modify this engine to fit on the Vision Hudson chassis and you could have all the bells and whistles.

 

Pete

Norton,

 

I'm guessing Chris is a 'Money no object guy' so I look forward to him going all out and seeing how much the labor charges is for his repair guy. 

 

Right Chris?

If I had an engine like this that I really wanted to modernize (and without knowing when or if Lionel will re-issue it anytime soon), I would look at upgrading it to a newer TMCC system with a smart puffer smoke unit such as the 8095-200. This smoke unit uses signals generated by the R2LC board to electronically pulse the smoke fan. The chuff sounds are timed by the standard cherry switch and the R2LC sends serial data to the RS system as well as the smoke unit.

Only trouble is you would likely lose the great whistle it currently has, unless you retain the current sound boards. 

 

Rod

I've never had mine apart,is it easy to get at the cam that drives the cherry switch and add more lobes using J.B.Weld??

 

Doug

Doug;

Interesting idea. I remember a post a while ago where someone had done exactly that, but I don't remember what engine it was.

You would have to strip all the boards and motor off the frame to get at the cam. It is located on the front driver axle and sits down in a cavity in the frame.

It would be easier to do if you could pull the drivers and axle out so as to get to the cam. Then of course you have the accurate quartering issue to deal with on reassembly.

The other thing that would worry me is perhaps adding 2 more lobes might make them too close, and prevent the cherry switch from opening between lobes. So it might not work at all, depending on the cam and lever geometry. Don't know.

Overall I am thinking it would be way easier to go with the magnets and reed switch.

 

Rod

I heard you were a "Will work for Mexican Coke" kind of guy. This job may be worth an entire case.

I think I'd keep the Vision Line Hudson as is if I had one