How to install Fan-Driven Smoke Unit

There is no instructions for doing modification work. You either have to dig in and figure things out, or pay someone to do the mod work for you. Assuming you’re running in conventional, ie; by the throttle of a transformer, a simple option for fan driven smoke would be a MTH PS1 smoke unit. It will have the easiest install as far as wiring is concerned. HOWEVER, the real job will be mounting the smoke unit so it fits in your locomotive. That’s where modifications will have to be made for fitment. Not only so the smoke comes out the stack correctly, but also so you don’t short out stuff as you reassemble your engine……

Pat

Thank you for your quick reply ----

Unfortunately, I do not run on conventional, my train runs with a Lionel TMCC remote unit, which also includes a PowerMaster and a PowerHouses.

I am primarily interested if it can be done, (per your comment, will a fan driven smoke unit fit into the  locomotive).   Then, if so, where can I purchase one and how much will it cost.

So, if anyone out there has done this type of modification, please let me know ---

Thanks again --

As Pat said there is no manual. You can get smoke units from both MTH and Lionel. Most anything you get will have to be modified by changing the resistor to 20-27 ohms. This if its wired directly to the R2LC feature out, pins 5 and 6.

Avoid “smart” and “semi smart” units. They have unneeded extra circuitry.

Some Lionel and MTH units have 5 volts on board to drive the fan but if you want synchronized puffs you have add a circuit to drive the fan with the chuff sound.

The Lionel Lionchief and Legacy units are very small and have little extra circuitry. Lionchief has none, Legacy has a thermistor which you can ignore. One of those should fit in your engine. You will have to fabricate a bracket. Sometimes the puffer bracket can be altered to work.

This is just one example on a scale Hudson. Not sure that specific unit is still available.

Pete

Lionel makes a simple bullet proof non-smart smoke unit 691-8057-200. It has the fan drive electronics on the pcb, and a bare bones hookup requires only track power and ground. The stock element is 27 ohms, but to really make smoke you need to change it out to 18 or 20 ohm unit. Straightforward. I am not sure if Lionel still sells the 8057, maybe someone else can comment on that. I have given up trying to find parts on their site. Otherwise some dealers may still have stock, or you can occasionally find them on ebay or the forum for sale site.

The big question is if the boiler is wide enough to fit the smoke unit up inside, such that the smoke unit funnel fits up to the stack nipple. Most will fit, but I don't know if that particular engine will work. Someone may know. If it will fit up there, an easy way to mount it is to shim it to the sides of the boiler with something like a piece of tapered wooden shingle on both sides. You simply push the shims in until tight and break off the excess. The shingles have a slight taper so they work great. I have mounted the smoke unit this way several times when doing PS-2 or PS-3 conversions in engines like K-Line hudsons and mikados. Its way faster than making custom aluminum brackets and such. You can also mount the MTH PS-1 smoke unit the same way.

The above is OK if you are happy with continuous non-puffing smoke. If you want puffing smoke probably the easiest method is to install one of grj's Super Chuffer units. This requires several wiring connection changes but works well. And you get rule 17 headlight and cab lighting as a bonus.

The Super Chuffer requires a trigger pulse in time with the drivers to initiate the smoke puff. This is usually easy to tap into if the engine has a so-called cherry switch driven by a lobed cam from one of the main driver axles. That engine may have a cherry switch, I don't know. If no cherry switch, the easiest way to generate a puff signal is grj's Chuff Generator. They work great but again there is wiring changes to contend with. Both the above kits come with pretty good instructions on what connection to hook up where.

If you are comfortable doing engine rewiring you will have no problem. If not the basic continuous smoke method is likely the best bet, unless you want to pay someone to do the install for you, as was said.

That should give you some things to chew on for a while!

Rod

I’ve always used to 8057. It is a fairly large unit and will not fit without modifications. Unfortunately I tried to buy several during the half price sale and it stated NLA.

I've installed a ton of fan driven smoke units to replace the puffers. I use the MTH steam smoke units if I can, they've given me excellent results.  I've also used MTH PS/1 self-contained smoke units, but they're pretty large.  The Lionel rectangular smoke unit is another choice.  For smaller locomotives, I've used Lionchief smoke units.

The smallest thing I've put fan driven smoke into is the K-Line A5 0-4-0, that one got a Lionchief fan drive smoke unit.  As others have mentioned, you will need more to have chuffing smoke.  This issue is specifically why I created the Super-Chuffer II.  In addition, when folks are upgrading, many also want a prototypical 4-chufs/rev of the drivers, so I have the Chuff-Generator to make that happen.  The Chuff-Generator also works out for installing TMCC in MTH locomotives as they have no chuff switch.

This is specific for GunrunnerJohn -

Per your above response, help me better understand -

1. to have simple fan-drive smoke, (no chufs/rev) I need the Programmable CHUFF-GENERATOR.   

2. to get "fan motor control for synchronized chuffing with the RailSounds output"  I need the SUPER-CHUFFER II, Smoke Enhancement Kit.   

To me, it sounds like I only want the SUPER-CHUFFER II, or, do I need to have both??

Please advise --

Father Christmas

I will butt in, for non-puffing steady only smoke all you need is a fan drive smu such as the lionel 691-8057-200, or the mth ps-1, powered by track power. Period.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

I will butt in, for non-puffing steady only smoke all you need ia a fan drive smu such as the lionel 691-8057-200, or the mth ps-1, powered by track power. Period.

Rod

This is true but that unit is NLA. There are a few more similar though. Described as a Diesel smoke unit with 27 ohm resistor. The unknown is whether they will fit in a traditional size engine.

Pete

The Chuff-Generator has one main purpose, to generate the chuff signal.  It is programmable for any chuff rate.  Optionally, the Chuff-Generator also controls automatic ground lights.

Th Super-Chuffer II has the following functions

• Smoke Unit fan motor control for synchronized chuffing with the RailSounds output.
• Smoke fan motor runs continuously at slow speed when locomotive is stopped.

Optional lighting features that can be wired

• Rule 17 LED light control for headlight, dimming when locomotive is stopped.
• Automatic control to turn cab light on when stopped, off when moving.
  
  

@Norton posted:

This is true but that unit is NLA. There are a few more similar though. Described as a Diesel smoke unit with 27 ohm resistor. The unknown is whether they will fit in a traditional size engine.

Pete

Pete, do you happen to have a lionel PN for that diesel smu that you referred to? I am thinking it might be the 8057 which was used in lots of diesels too during the 2000’s. Too bad they discontinued it.

Rod

I've used this one for many smaller locomotives.  You have to supply 5VDC for the fan, but I normally use it with the Super-Chuffer, so that isn't an issue for my installs.

@Rod Stewart posted:

Pete, do you happen to have a lionel PN for that diesel smu that you referred to? I am thinking it might be the 8057 which was used in lots of diesels too during the 2000’s. Too bad they discontinued it.

Rod

Here is one Rod. I have 8057s and they were my go to units until they became NLA.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...NGULAR-DIESEL-27-OHM

Pete

This is a great thread. I've always been interested in converting a conventional steamer to ERR (the easy part) but was always hesitant because I wasn't sure how to handle the smoke unit and chuffing. It sounds like John's Chuff-Generator and Super-Chuffer II are just what the doctor order!

@Norton.... I love the before and after conversion pictures. It really shows what needs to be considered regarding smoke generator positioning (front-to-back) and height.

I'm guessing for a steamer like the 681/682 Turbines; only the Super-Chuffer II would be need (since there are no pistons)?

@Junior posted:

This is a great thread. I've always been interested in converting a conventional steamer to ERR (the easy part) but was always hesitant because I wasn't sure how to handle the smoke unit and chuffing. It sounds like John's Chuff-Generator and Super-Chuffer II are just what the doctor order!

@Norton.... I love the before and after conversion pictures. It really shows what needs to be considered regarding smoke generator positioning (front-to-back) and height.

I'm guessing for a steamer like the 681/682 Turbines; only the Super-Chuffer II would be need (since there are no pistons)?

Actually for that engine you only need a smoke unit with built in 5v regulator like the referenced above.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...NGULAR-DIESEL-27-OHM

Driven from the R4LC it would produce steady smoke like a diesel.

Pete

Hey @Norton.....excuse me while I chastise MYSELF by saying DUH . As usual, the obvious alludes me!

Thanks for the recommendation and parts link!

Junior, you got it. You don't need the CC or CG.

Pete, thanks for the link to that smu. It's hard to tell for sure but that may be the same body casting as the 8057, but with a different pcb with the electronics off to the side instead of on the fan end. This means it would be too wide to fit inside most any steam boiler sadly. I may order one just to check it out.

If the casting is the same one could use grj's replacement smoke unit pcb instead (which perfectly fits the 8057), populated with the necessary diode, cap, and Vreg to run the fan motor. That should work fine.

Another option is to reproduce the 8057 body casting. Hmmm, I think I see a possible new 3D print project coming up!

Rod

Many of the Lionel rectangular smoke units used the same casting with just a different PCB.  That's what gave me the idea to make a replacement PCB.

Rod, in most cases I make a new stack or add an extension so the unit can fit lower the smokebox. Brass tubing might be all thats needed.

Weaver Baltic with a Lionchief unit and brass tube on the stack.

Pete

I have tons of brass tubing stacks if I can't position the smoke unit to use a stock funnel.

Here's one of many.

Pete that's a slick idea. I seem to recall that 1/4" tubing just nicely fits inside the standard smoke funnel. And it should just CA glue in place nicely.

John, you are basically confirming that the rectangular smu 610-4537-200 uses the same body casting as did the 8057, which makes sense. One clue is those body screws in the pic below look the same as the 8057, whereas newer ssmu units typically use a smaller 2mm metric screw.

Rod

I have noticed some of the diecast tanks have SAE screws and others have Metric screws.  All the tanks with the basic same shape appear to have the same dimensions.