How to run Legacy with DCS

You need a TMCC or Legacy Base and an MTH cable to connect the Lionel base to the DCS TIU.

While you will be able to run the Lionel trains with the basic TMCC command from the DCS handheld, you will net NONE of the Legacy specific features from the Lionel engines using this setup

Joe,

I believe you can also run the legacy engines AT THE SAME TIME as DCS engines, simply by using the Legacy handheld.  I only have the new CAB1-L/BASE1 Lite system, and found this out not too long ago.  I run my PS2 engines using the DCS handheld and my TMCC engines using the CAB1-L handheld (with the base connected to the track of course).

I have run TMCC, Legacy, and DCS engines on the same track at the same time.  If you're really quick on the controls, you can do it all with the DCS remote, but I'm not that quick, so I use the CAB2 for the TMCC and Legacy engine and the DCS remote for the PS/2 engine.

For a detailed discussion of using DCS with TMCC/Legacy, including wiring diagrams, refer to The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition, Part VI - TMCC and Legacy, pages 121-125.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

I pretty much followed the recipe in Barry's book and run TMCC and Legacy from my DCS remote. I like it. I have a little trouble with Legacy/TMCC signal strength but I believe that's because the house wiring in my train room is not grounded. Otherwise all of the features I need to enjoy my layout with TMCC and Legacy engines are readily available. Currently, CONOPS on my layout do not require the Legacy advanced features. Also, even though speed scale is not the same I much prefer the DCS thumb wheel over that dumb red knob on the Cab 1L remote. Now if I could just shut off that awful crew talk that occurs every time I power down the Legacy . . . .

A bit off topic, and you have probably been asked this before, but did you ever consider a 'Legacy/TMCC O Gauge Companion'? AFAIK, there is no DCS O Gauge Companion equivalent for Legacy/TMCC and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable on both. I am sure  it would be a large undertaking, but just might be worth it?

rtr12,

    I agree it would be great if Barry produced such a book, I just went into Legacy my self and will now combine it with my DCS.  Although the knowledge is out there it would be nice to have it compiled in one place, I would love for Rich and the boys to make a OGR combined Legacy/DCS Video guide also.  Because of my engineering education I appreciate what Barry and Rich both make possible for the people in our O gauge hobby.  Both would be a massive undertaking no doubt about it.

PCRR/Dave 

Lionel Legacy itself is easy to connect to an existing DCS system, just hook the black wire from the Legacy base to all the TIU commons that you are using and you are good to go. At least that's how I did it and it's working just fine. Legacy and Legacy engines are quite impressive too. I actually like having two systems, provides a lot of variety.

Besides the commands to learn with Legacy and all the new buttons and stuff, Lionel has so many different add on devices, Powermaster, TPC, BPC, ASC, SCx, etc. MTH has only an AIU. That's where I thought a book like the DCS O Gauge Companion would really shine. I have read about all these Lionel devices and they are still a bit confusing as to what to use when and where.

Now they have LCS with the sensor track, Serial2, wifi, etc to add to all that. I think some of the LCS stuff will be replacing some of the older items, but don't know for sure? I think this is a needed reference for Lionel Legacy/TMCC stuff. I think Lionel  is trying to clarify some of this with their new Power catalog though.

Don't think Barry is interested as he didn't reply. Can't say as I blame him though, that would be a massive undertaking and he may not be as familiar with the Lionel stuff as he is with MTH? Thankfully we still have this forum to help guide us through all this stuff. Perhaps the time for an instruction book would also be better after the LCS system is further along in development. 

Personally I think Lionel has been doing a pretty good job with their video page explaining it. 

As a Legacy User I was thinking about a possible stab at it but I have way too much work and the forum is so "real time" that it really makes it harder to justify the time and effort.  Especially since Rudy is doing the videos as well.

Will have to go watch the videos, don't think I have seen them all yet. Still think a book it would be a nice reference to have around though. Nice to have it all in one place. Maybe you could just dictate to Lee while you are running your trains, he's seems to be turning out a new book every couple of days now.  (Really just kidding on that one, but he does seem to get an mazing amount of stuff done!)

Don't think Barry is interested as he didn't reply. Can't say as I blame him though, that would be a massive undertaking and he may not be as familiar with the Lionel stuff as he is with MTH? 

You've pretty much answered your own question.  

The truth is that, while I'm very knowledgeable of DCS, my knowledge of all things Legacy is not nearly as strong. I wouldn't think of undertaking a project as important as a guide to all of the capabilities of Legacy unless I was an expert, which I most certainly am not.

you could always write one yourself.

If Barry can't do it there are many others on this forum and even those from LNL that could and should write the definitive book on LCS.

They (Lionel) may think that the catalog explanations and accompanying manuals are all that is necessary.

Personally I don't find it all that difficult but I realize that others may. I think once Rudy ramps up the videos a book might not be needed. So far the videos have been pretty good. 

The other thing is whoever writes the book will need a great deal of cooperation from Lionel. I'm sure Barry can attest that may not be a requirement but is very helpful. 

Again if I had the spare time I'd probably give it a go but you'll have to settle for me being on the forum. And to be honest with all the talent here, a great deal more would get addressed.

I do see where you are coming from. 

Yes, I certainly could. However, since I know very little about Legacy and LCS and was one that was looking for a reference book so I could learn more about the system, it would probably be of little or no value to anyone and a wasted effort. This task would be much better left to someone who is very knowledgeable on the subject of Legacy and LCS that could explain and share that knowledge with the rest of us, which was the whole point of my original post.

Would anyone really read a book? Starting with the Legacy Manual is a book in itself.

Would anyone really read a book?

I know of nearly 6,000 nearly people who have read mine!

I disagree with your assessment.. you are the perfect person to write a book as you are learning and probably would not leave out some important things.

just my opinion.

The book for Legacy has been often discussed, but in reality would be mighty thin. It just isn't really that deep of a system (not saying its bad or light on features)it just doesn't have all the in's and outs that DCS has.

Now with the addition of LCS system, I can see some demand for more in depth knowledge about that, so time will tell.

For those wanting a Legacy book, what is it you are wanting covered? I did ask this question once and only had two questions that were not well covered in the manual. So lets try it again

I appreciate your vote of confidence (if that's what this really is?), but I really don't know enough about it to know if I would be leaving anything out or not, or providing false information etc. Maybe in a few years, but they will have moved on to something else by then.  

Maybe others more experienced will offer suggestions? I really don't know enough to even know what needs to be covered. I have only briefly gone through the manual and have a lot to go back and look at. As far as getting it up and running, that part was easy, it worked great until my power supply died after about 15 minutes of operation and everything went silent, all the lights on the base went out. However, Lionel did save the day by getting me a new PS right away. All has been fine since then.

It does seem like there are a lot of questions about all the command control devices like which one does what, what do I need to do this or that, can I do this etc. TMCC lock-ons, TPC's Powermasters, Bridges, BPC, SC-2, ASC (I don't know all the terms for these). And now there is the LCS and I know it's new, but there seem to be a lot of questions on all that as well. There also seem to be a lot of questions about the ground plane, how to tell if you need one, how it works and stuff like that.

The DCS O gauge Companion for example tells you what DCS is, how it works, what devices are available for additions and what they do, how to wire it up, how to wire accessories to the AIU, all the hand held remote commands, Differences between steam and diesel commands, offers tips for best performance, trouble shooting, etc. It basically covers all the options of the system,and how they work and what to do if they don't. Pretty much all you need to know in one place for learning and later reference. 

I realize a lot of you don't need this, but I still think it would help a lot of us new to Legacy & LCS. I haven't read one, but I believe there are books on TMCC, they just haven't been upgraded for the newer systems. It would be especially good for folks just getting a Legacy or LCS system for the first time that did not already have TMCC. One reference where you could look up all the information for the whole system, you could keep it by the layout and have all the handy in one place. Who knows, it could even get someone interested in the hobby?

What many fail to recognize is some don't like to try to extract this information from videos.  I know I'd MUCH rather have the written word for stuff like this.

What Barry did for DCS was to discuss MTH's or Wolfe's train control philosophy. It helps I think to understand what the inventor/author was trying to accomplish with DCS in understanding how to use the system.  Aside from making money! That's why Barry's book was so important to me.

After DCS, I tend to look at the layout track is one giant circuit. We have created infinite layouts with infinite circuits and each time we through a switch the circuit changes. Add to that the engines and cars that interact with the track circuit and you have a lot going on. All of which DCS had to work with.

For LCS, I still don't get Lionel's reasoning behind the system. It's Cool may be good enough for some folks but not me. Did Lionel intend for us to have 1 SensorTrack on each loop or dozens? I don't know. What are the benefits of the various components and how do they interact with the older versions of them or with DCS? Which are better? Is a separate IR equipped box car likely or not? Why or why not?

I think a book would help to understand the system so that we could build better layouts that adapt to it. 

Thanks GRJ, I totally agree. If I am at my layout trying to figure something out, I don't want to go hunt down a video, try to figure out which one to watch and then watch videos for an hour when I could find the info in 5 minutes in a reference book like Barry's that was right next to my layout.  

All good points here. I'm sure many of the old time Lionel folks have all this down very well, but I think there are a lot of us that don't. I also think a well written book (I mean explained in for the masses, not just for the technical folks) would help a lot of people get a better understanding of the Legacy and LCS systems and components and would probably also help Lionel sell a lot more product. People are not going to buy what they don't fully understand, if they don't understand they don't see the need and nothing is purchased. Lionel loses out on sales.

Wow Barry 6000 books didn't realize there were that many people into this stuff.  LCS is kind of just coming out so it may be to soon for a book as people are just learning what its all about. The beauty of this forum is people post what they are learning about it. TMCC was the same way when it first came out.

While I agree a reference book is fine, I also like to see what's happening so I guess there is an argument for both.  Just imagine links on the iPad to the specific video for that device.  Or just as well links to that section of the book.

Perfect example of videos is some early ones I did when Legacy was introduced.  I did the videos from the information that I got from the manual.  The manual was fairly clear but once folks saw the video something clicked. 

I do agree though there is room for both but we just need someone with the time and know how to write one.  I personally don't know where to even begin writing about it but I'm pretty good at showing.

Make that 5,999 readers. I bought both the hard copy and the digital copy of Barry's book. So it goes without saying that I have absorbed twice as much know-how as the average reader

Make that 5,999 readers. I bought both the hard copy and the digital copy of Barry's book.

A more accurate statement would be "close to 6,000 copies sold".

Maybe "This and whole lot more sold" would be better  LOL!

Barry

Seriously thank you for your continued contributions.  While my DCS setup does not require "The Book" yet, hopefully by next summer I will need to aquire it when I move into a more permanent residence.

I like also the videos for learning, but the book would be for both learning and reference. I wasn't suggesting the videos were not needed and definitely do enjoy watching them.

Same here, I bought both, so make that 5,998  I've also accessed twice the knowledge and know-how, however my memory isn't the greatest and not a lot has been retained so I still need the book.

Gentlemen,

    Heck I have been harassing Barry about writing a book blending the two systems together for years, Barry is a great technical writer, few understand it's an art in itself.

Having to write technical Welding Engineering directions for the NASA Space shuttle project, I appreciate Barry's technical writing talents greatly it's not as easy as Barry makes it look, believe me.  I also appreciate Rich's OGR Video guide to DCS, wish he would do a complete video on DCS & Legacy to add to my library, believe me both would definitely sell! 

PCRR/Dave