I'm wondering what will be presented in the American Flyer 2015 Catalog!

Me too!

 

Ed Boyle

Partner

Special Projects Editor

O Gauge Railroading magazine

330-757-3716 Office

I think Lionel is a bit shy to cut new tooling seeing how we lambasted the cylindrical hoppers and the high bolsters. While we will eventually see new stuff, I see a catalog of warmed over offerings.

 

Not saying that none of it will be neat. Still looking forward to it, and hoping for a surprise..

While we will eventually see new stuff, I see a catalog of warmed over offerings.

I agree that Lionel might be a bit reluctant to invest in new tooling; but if the "warming over" ends up congealing the cake, it may be enough for a decent reward. They reissued the U33C with better gearing and the SD70ACe with a better wheel arrangement. If they warmed up the SD70s and the near-perfect Norfolk Southern ES44s with new cabs and headlights in the nose so that they look like the actual BNSF, CP, CSX, KCS, and UP locomotives that make up the majority of the modern locomotives on the rails, that would be excellent. I budgeted for three this year, but decided to wait for Lionel to get it right in 2015.

 

New bolsters for the cylindrical hoppers to lower them would also require low heat to make a very nice product. (Replaceable high-rail/scale wheels would make that hopper near perfect. Having to replace nice-but-too-high trucks with AM trucks gets to be expensive.)

 

The tooling for the Mikados and Pacifics still exists, and it would be terrific if Lionel could outfit them with Legacy AC/DC systems as in the Y3.

 

There will certainly be new paint for the boxcars, hoppers, and gondolas of old; but a little tweaking of some of the newer existing tooling would be very welcome news. (And including information on easy-to-order scale wheel sets for locomotives and rolling stock would add icing to the warmed over cake. Let everyone eat cake!) 

I expect the main focus will be towards "traditional" Flyer with FlyerChief control. 

 

Rusty

Do the Mikes with Legacy...that's the best we can hope for at this point.  No fastrack crossing with gates, no 57' reefer...both bad signs for the "new" areas for flyer. 

Hope I'm wrong. 

I think the MTH S gauge catalog will be of more intrest than this years Flyer catalog. 

Ben

I wish I could press an easy button and go back to American Flyer. In 1983 went to Lionel, but stared with A.C. Gilbert. 

I'm not sure Legacy fits in the Pacific's and Mike's.  Both the WP 2-8-2 and Southern 4-6-2 were supposed to have Legacy, but both were cancelled.

 

Rusty

I want the WP mike...I have the caboose already. Oh yeah, I want the Conrail SD-40 they teased us with years ago as well.

While I'm not expecting anything new, it's a pity that they didn't use their scale/standard O R&D and produce S versions of the PS-1 40' boxcar, PS-5 gondola, 50' double door AAR boxcar and the AAR steel offset hopper.  If S Helper could tool cars that are easily converted from Hi-rail to scale I can't see why Lionel can't figure it out.  These are all cars that would compliment the existing x-SHS MTH tooling.  I don't see it happening, but it would be nice.  

 

Seriously: Just start with a basic 40' PS-1 with a 6' door.  It has loads of road name potential and would really fill a major gap.  

Brian

Ya that's true, but with the advancements that Lionel is making with (what I think would be) shrinking electronics, LionChief and what not, I would think they could get the electronics package in the tender now.  That WP Mike was about 5 years ago now if I remember right.  And if they could pull off a Mikado with Legacy I would think they could then do a heavy mike with just a retooled boiler.   It seems to be all the rage on the O gauge side.  I would be in for a few myself. 

I fear that Lionel does not have the toolng for the Mikes, Pacifics and Flyer-esk northerns anymore.  Why else would we not see anything of the like over the past five or six years?  I hope it did not get lost with all the China BS from a few years ago.

It's funny, that's what the Lionel rep was talking about way back in 2002 at the NASG Milwaukee convention when they introduced the Mikado.

 

Of course, he's long gone and there have been several management changes since then.

 

Rusty

 

Good Day,

 

I'm hopeful that the 57' Mechanical Reefers will be built. More rolling stock from the 40's to 60's as well as modern rolling stock for the 21st Century Model Railroaders.

 

I have a feeling.............. we will be surprised!

 

Happy New Year,

Frank   

Well, going out on a limb ... 

 

1. The matching streamlined passenger cars for the Legacy D&H and SP ALCo PA sets.

2. Recataloguing the three Berkshire sets

3. A traditional tooled Reading coal hopper (maybe).

4. A smoking traditional tooled bay window caboose.

 

Bob

I'd take a Mike with DCC capabilities!

Bob....

 

Thats going to make for one skinny catalog!  Hope there is something a little more substantial than that. 

 

Ben 

 

Did not intend my list to be the entire catalog. 

 

Bob

Since the Polar Express engine resembles the postwar 736, I'm hoping for a 746 and a 773 style engines.

Also, I would like to see the post war train sets brought back as a series.

 

Thanks, Phil  

A newly tooled Dash-9.

Swafford,

 Not in the Lionel American Flyer catalog but if you are a TCA member look for announcement in the March Issue of Headquarters News about an American Flyer by Lionel repainted Crane and Work Caboose available now as well as a combine car coming this years.  These cars have been repainted from the Maintenance of Way series(neon yellow that have been for sale in the museum) to Reading(Green/yellow lettering) and PRR(Tuscan/white lettering)  The crane and caboose are only sold in sets $99.95 plus shipping.  The combine unit has not been priced yet.

 

Paul Edgar

Past President

I would guess that the Heritage craze of one-off, glossy locomotives has run its course. If Lionel keeps ES44AC and SD70ACe locomotives in the category, we might see two numbers of black Norfolk Southern ES44ACs with no change to headlight position--popular and prototypically correct. The Ferromex SD70ACe has been well received in the O gauge community for its Christmas-colorful paint scheme, so if Lionel is going to deliver in time for Christmas 2015, that might be an offering. The question is whether they will bother to fix headlights on their modern locomotives to match the real world. Some people do not care. Others balk at less visible details such as doors on the wrong side of the engine. I'm in the middle, I suppose. Correct doors and vents vary so much from railroad to railroad and release to release and are often so obscure that it does not bother me if they are not an exact match. But BNSF, CP, and UP ES44AC locomotives with upper headlights are like a portrait of Groucho Marx without a moustache--it's a face I don't recognize.

 

 

Face it, nose headlights ain't gonna happen.  The 3-rail O side's been complaining about the same thing on their ES44's, plus some other chronic and obvious issues (like window glazing installed on the outside of passenger cars.)

 

If Circle L's not going to do it for the O Gaugers, they're certainly not going to do it for S.

 

Rusty

Lionel did it for the diecast versions. Granted, those locomotives were well over $1,000 each; but can a consumer-facing company other than cable companies afford to ignore their own customers forever? The U33Cs had different placements of horns and different headlight arrangements that were prototypical. (Lionel just forgot to mention that wonderful--and somewhat expensive--feature.) The Challengers had either double or single smoke stacks. (OK, Lionel did forget to change the tenders as they promised  and failed to put in the engineer, fireman, and brake sound effects.)

 

I roughly figured that Norfolk Southern bought 6% of the ES44AC models from GE. Is Lionel willing to ignore the 94% of the locomotives that have a different headlight---for BOTH O and S gauge? If so, they have lost me as a customer.

 

PS: Who's the guy in the photo? I never "saw" him on the radio.

It's all beginning to make sense now. Norfolk Western started as a trunk line after the Civil war and later incorporated the Virginian, Wabash, and Nickel Plate. The Southern ran through Alabama where the tusks were looser. Different noses; missing tusks. It's becoming clearer. I still have hope that Lionel can outperform the cable companies.

I'll tell you one thing, I wouldn't pay a grand for an S ES44 or SD70 because it's die cast metal.  Plus, I seem to recall hearing that die cast diesels has run its course in the O Gauge line.

 

Let's compare some apples and peaches...

 

The AM U25B's lack the headlights on the nose for the CB&Q version and the light package for the SP version.  Only the Demonstrator, Wabash and SP versions of the Train Master should have the Mars light on the short hood.  It shouldn't be there on the other roads. (And you just can't fill in the Mars light opening, you would also have to relocate the headlight higher for the other roads offered.)

 

How's about all those NYC and PRR FP7's running around with "dual" headlights?  And even the new T&P GP9's don't have the Mars lights the prototype had.

 

The E8's do have correct headlights per prototype, however.

 

Now, I'm not "picking on AM," Ron has his business plan and it's worked well for him and his locomotives cost half as much or less as Lionel's.  I'm well satisfied with his products.

 

Even with SHS, the SW's don't always have the correct headlights per prototype...  Some should have the can style while others the Pyle dual headlight.

 

Back to Lionel...

 

I strongly suspect if there's another run of U33C's, they're going to be "generic" regardless of decoration.  I don't think they got the expected response from the S crowd with the "scale" stuff. 

 

There are multiple reasons, but one of them likely is there isn't a "lock step" contingent of brand loyalists in S as there is in O.  There's a small contingent on the scale side that feel now matter how well detailed, if it say American Flyer on the box, it's a toy train.  Heck, there's probably still some guys around that hold a grudge that Lionel is making Flyer.

 

I'm not even sure "scale" stuff has a future with Lionel right now.  Pity, it's nice stuff, even with the hiccups.  I still think S is better off with it than without.

 

We will likely see more development of things like the Berkshire that could be upgraded if needed at a later date.  The next catalog may provide an indication of the route Lionel's going to take with the AF line in the future.

 

Plus, what are the alternatives?  MTH is probably 3-5 years away from a newly tooled S locomotive and AM moves in mysterious ways.

 

I'll admit, the "competition" between the manufacturers hasn't quite worked out as I thought it might.

 

I'm perfectly willing to eat crow on my thoughts. I've got some in the freezer ready to microwave...

 

Recognize him now?

 

Rusty

You offer a lot of good points, Rusty. All the AM product I bought had the proper light arrangements, and I avoided the ones that did not look correct. Ron make single-piece bodies that required a single cavity, probably because his is a small company. The Lionel diesels have what appears to be a separate cab, which means that the cab has its own mold. That's what I was hoping. (I'd also like an AC/DC/DCC U33C if Lionel decides to rerun it.)

 

I do recognize him now! It's Harpo without his hat! (Groucho was the one with the moustache, and it was below the nose--just like a proper ES44AC.)

The last Lionel catalog indicated that they would issue a NKP Berk freight set.  I hope they follow through with that.

@banjoflyer: could you clarify. What specifically is being violated?

Thanks,

Steve

D'oh! I can be so dense. I get it now. The Norfolk Southern ordered all their Grouchos with upper mustaches. While nearly every other railroad under the sun ordered their Grouchos that didn't perform on radio with proper lower mustaches.  

 

OK, we've had our fun (at least I did...)

 

Regardless of the position of mustaches...  err... headlights, I don't think there was anyone else that was going to take the chance and build some contemporary S diesels.  I almost think if it wasn't for the railroad Heritage programs, the SD70's and ES44's wouldn't have seen the light of day.  What, if anything would have replaced them I haven't a clue.

 

I understand why folks want headlights in the nose, but I don't think Lionel is going to act on something that's not a total disaster (roller bearing trucks come to mind and even that wasn't fully addressed...)

 

As I've indicated before, I wouldn't be surprised if Lionel backs away from the "scale" Flyer products and concentrates more on intermediate products like the Berkshires and revamped traditional Flyer.

 

That would be bad from a "scaler" perspective, but it might be a good thing over all if it results in lower priced products that get more folks interested in S.

 

Rusty

I can't even start to guess what Lionel has in mind for S gauge because they have done so many things extremely well in one release and then stumbled in the next. I suspect that what will determine the future is how satisfied they are with sales, and I have no way to know their level of satisfaction.

 

The Pacifics and Mikados were evidence that Lionel was developing excellent locomotives for the S gauge market. They were a bit pricey, but beautifully detailed. Then came the "Big Boy" that were a short cut whose proportions were not ideal. They followed this up with excellent Challengers and U33Cs with road-specific details. (These details were a bit over-stated in the Challenger literature--the tenders were all coal and no figures appeared in the cab--and not mentioned at all for the U33Cs.) There were some objections, of course. Locomotives were AC only, and the diesel pilots followed the trucks around curves. A few misteps, but overall Lionel appeared to be listening.

 

Then came the Y3s and the SD70ACe locomotives. Both had superb and accurate detailing, precise paint jobs, AC/DC/DCC compatibility (even though the Y3 "compatibility" surprised Lionel), sprung pilots on the diesels, and a good selection of road names. The diesel wheel arrangement was not ideal, but the follow-up ES44AC locomotives fixed that and seemed to be the pinnacle of Lionel's S gauge offerings. If sales lagged, it could only be that the emphasis on Norfolk Southern heritage livery in glossy paint schemes may not have been to everyone's taste. In all other aspects, that locomotive was almost perfect. I was really getting excited about Lionel's quick responses, improvements, and new products.

 

I can't explain the cylindrical hopper fiasco (fantasy schemes on cars that sat too high with out-of-gauge scale wheels meant for customers who avoid fantasy, wrong proportions, and inaccuracy). That shook everyone's confidence enough to question pre-orders for the mechanical reefers, a consumer reaction Lionel may have taken as lack of interest. (Lionel cancelled the product and forgot to mention it until a month before those who did pre-order it expected it to be delivered!) Apparently Lionel was also risk-averse, and the new ES44AC locomotives were merely repainted Norfolk Southern products.

 

Lionel had to blow out older product through their retailers. That seemed to move a lot of product quickly. Now even the "limited production" of the new ES44AC locomotives is getting harder to find. That must be a sign to Lionel that there are S gauge customers willing to part with their dollars when the offerings are right.

 

When I see Lionel's efforts at diversity with smoke stacks (Challengers), horns, headlight treatments (U33Cs), number boards (Challengers and Y3s),and new sound effects in the ES44ACs and their running improvements in functionality with U33C gearing, SD70ACe wheels, sprung pilots, and AC/DC/DCC compatibility, I am encouraged enough to hope for the little effort it would take to perfect reissues of products for which the tooling exists. If the non-Norfolk Southern ES44AC locomotives were limited in production, my hope is that the limitation means Lionel intended to follow them up with more prototypical versions this year. Despite some serious stumbles, Lionel has made some wonderful contributions to S gauge for AF, high-rail, and scale enthusiasts. The past is too spotty to say I expect it to continue, but I certainly hope so.  

I was in contact with Matt Ashba at Lionel yesterday via email.  There will be a seperate American Flyer catalog and it will be available at York in April.  What will be in it is a secret!!!  

A Lionel rep had stated on notch 6 that the AF 2015 catalog and the 2015 C1 (o gauge) catalog are at the printer now.  Should be available (on line?) on or about February 1st.  I hope that the catalog is available for pick up at York in April, but I also hope that it's contents are two months old by then.  Can't see waiting till April for this. 

Ben

I thought of something Lionel could make in American Flyer that they already make in O.  Most all of the steam engines running now have to have a second tender for water and fuel.  Since Lionel has made a number of Union Pacific steam engines in the modern era I would like to have an auxilary to run behind my Flyionel and Gilbert Union Pacific steamers.  

 

The new catalog is already in the printing stage so maybe for 2016.

F.Y.I.  No fuel is carried in the auxiliary tenders (also called canteens.)  Water only.  Toting along an adequate water supply is much more important these days than in the steam days were water tanks populated the main lines and terminals.  Given the Hobson's choice, it's better to run out of fuel rather than water. 

 

In reality, back in the steam days, few railroads used canteens.  Illinois Central, Norfolk and Western and the Baltimore and Ohio come to mind as regular users on freight trains, but not passenger trains.

 

Rusty

In my new catalog I would like to see some starter sets, and or ready to run sets.

 

We run S trains at many shows and hear all the time that the scale is the perfect size.  Then they ask us where can I get these trains??

 

So if Mike and the crew at Lionel is reading this, how about trying some ready to run sets like the $109.00 to $399.00 sets that you offer in O gauge.

 

That in my humble opinion will grow S train sales.

 

Aflyer

While poking around on the Charles Ro web site (to check updated delivery dates) I discovered that there are now 27" radius turnouts listed in addition to the 20" radius turnouts.  I believe this is a new addition. Also, the regular "remote controlled" turnouts have been removed and now there is a choice between manual and "command control/remote".  It has been reported that these will be the two choices for turnouts in the future (also for O gauge" I believe). 

 

Still no no lighted gate crossing...

 

Ben. 

Aflyer - Lionel has Ready to Run sets in the 2014 catalog and they are not released yet.  Check pages 21 to 23.

Bill, 

You are correct they do have a couple, and delivery would be nice. Especially for those of us who have pre-ordered the PE set.  

In addition to seeing delivery of what is in the catalog, I also think to grow the scale we need more entry level RTR sets.

How would you like to see something like this from Lionel and retailers in S?

http://www.charlesro.com/trainsetsale1.html

 

Aflyer

By the way all,

 

I just looked at the Charles Ro site, and the delivery date for the Polar Express is now pushed out to March10.

 

Aflyer