I'm wondering what will be presented in the American Flyer 2015 Catalog!

The most underwhelming train catalog I have ever seen.  In an effort to say something positive, I did think the US Army cars were cool - I think Flyer guys would like them.

 

 

I don't know, I'm not an S gauge guy, but being a small market I was impressed with the amount of different offering in the S gauge catalog. Some for the scale guys, some for the traditional AF style. Nice selection of trains, track accessories and the new FlyerChief.

I can also agree with many of the points Mark made about Lionel production.  If you look carefully at his list, for the most part there has been a slow march towards more scale detailed products, culminating with the Y3's, SD70's and ES44's.

 

One thing that happened in 2012, Lionel personnel actively sought input regarding DCC compatibility, which resulted in the successful implementation (under a deadline, no less) of that feature in the SD70's and later ES44's.  Plus, the DCC upgrade is available with Lionel's blessing for those who send off their Y3's to S Scale Locomotive & Supply for scale wheel conversion.

 

It's amazing what can happen with a little interaction with the customer base.  This, oddly enough, is one of the things that made S Helper Service successful.

 

This was also an action taken by Lionel that gave the Scale side hope for not only new products for our selfish selves, but an expansion of S in general given Lionel's name recognition and retail network.  The apparent demise of "scale" products is a valid reason for disappointment by the minority of the minority.  So please forgive us few Scale folk for some wailing and gnashing of teeth...  We will get over it.

 

It's certainly Lionel's right to pursue the market as it sees fit.  FlyerChief certainly has potential, for both the existing customer base and expansion of same. 

 

What remains to be seen is if FlyerChief expands beyond the Berkshire.  The electronics will probably fit in the PA's and EP5, but I think it would be a tight squeeze in the GP's, Baldwin switchers and not at all in the 0-6-0 Docksider.   Of course, Lionel could be working on electronics miniaturization as we speak.

 

The only real downside to FlyerChief the the one locomotive, one remote feature.  As one acquires locomotives, the remotes begin piling up and what happens 10 years from now if the remote gets broken or ceases working.  This concern has been expressed by many folks on the 3-rail side.  At least the Flyer version will have the switch to allow one to run the locomotives under conventional AC from the beginning.

 

If the FlyerChief Berkshires and Polar Express sets wind up not meeting Lionel's sales expectations and departs down the same track that the scale Flyer has apparently gone, I'm sure there will be disappointment expressed by folks in the 85%.

 

Rusty

Oh well.

I envision Lionel's scale-ish offerings will ebb and flow. If they do another scale car, please don't forget the Kadee couple pad.

Diesels, offering scale wheelsets would be nice. Road specific detailing on $400+ models would silence most critics.

Big Legacy steam. I'd like to see more.

 

This is MTH's time to grab the market, as Lionel retrenches. Maybe toss us a big steamer like a GS-4, N&W J with trains. Maybe a proper sized Big Boy?

Though I'm sure they're concentrating on the old SHS line. Still, we can dream. S-Gaugers are dreamers. I've been doing it all my life.

 

Also let's not forget AM and SSA. Things are not at all bleak. I've seen darker days.

 

"The only real downside to FlyerChief the the one locomotive, one remote feature.  As one acquires locomotives, the remotes begin piling up and what happens 10 years from now if the remote gets broken or ceases working.  This concern has been expressed by many folks on the 3-rail side.  At least the Flyer version will have the switch to allow one to run the locomotives under conventional AC from the beginning."

 

 This is also a concern I have with the FlyerChief, and knowing that Electric Railroad is part of Lionel, why not use the ERR TMCC products in the Flyonel engines. It may not be Legacy, it would, I believe, have a lower price point and I have installed TMCC in an ACG  Baldwin diesel with sound so I know there is enough room. It would be possible also to put Legacy into the tenders of S gauge steam engines which would probably need wired tethers, maybe not the ideal, but we have lived with that before, it may not be Legacy in the smaller diesels, but it would give us more equipment to run with the system.

Ray

That type of sentiment has also been expressed often on the 3-rail side to no avail.

 

Rusty

Well, now having looked at the new AF catalog, there are a number of items that please this 'traditionalist':

 

1. Berkshire (NKP for me to pull those NKP cars I have from years ago) ... entirely operable in my Legacy environment with the FlyerChief remote.

2. The D&H passenger car set(s) for my preordered Legacy D&H PAs.

3. A traditional Gilbert-style hopper in Reading (At last! Hooray!).

 

There a few other items I may order after some consideration.

 

Far too many repeats of old stock, to be sure, and not much in terms of new accessories. However, for some of us, it is not the disaster that some would have it.

 

Bob

 

 

Rusty,

Maybe it is worth a try, back when Lionel offered the first run of the U-33 I contacted them to ask if they might make that engine in the Milwaukee Road colors, I was informed by the folks at Lionel that they would not disclose what future plans for production were. But, it did happen and I understand that this may only coincidence but what harm is there in contacting them with our desires, maybe there are listening ears there. Maybe if enough in S gauge people contact them not demanding but showing desire for more of this kind of product they may hear us. How about these steamers, the Northern, Pacific and others with an option for un-decorated and TMCC?

Ray

Ray,

 

The thing I understand about the Lion/FlyerChief command control systems is that they are basic, low cost systems designed with a price point to attract new customers.  Making it operationally compatible with TMCC or Legacy would increase the cost of the set or locomotive.

 

Lionel must certainly be aware of the concerns of the more experience hobbyist from the many number of times the subject has been brought up on the 3-rail O forum and probably York also.

 

If they're not going to change the "Chief" systems for the O-Gaugers, why would they change it for the S Gaugers?

 

For right now, FlyerChief may just be the shot in the arm for S Gauge to get someone interested.  It would be nice to see another FlyerChief locomotive introduced.  We'll know if we see an expansion next year with another locomotive or if it's going to linger on until stock is depleted.

 

Doubtless there will be some of the more talented S Gaugers upgrading the Berkshire to TMCC, and it may even become factory installed in the future, but it's too soon to tell.

 

Rusty

 

 

I just finished listing to the notch 6 lionel 2015 c1 episode.  Derek was kind enough to ask Matt A about what's new in the AF catalog, and guess what...not much.  Matt did say that the Berk and it's "flyer chief" is more like lionchief plus (Than lionchief).  Not much else mentioned.  I thought the expanded and never seen fastrack turnouts would be discussed but they were not.  I have not seen and pre order pricing yet on the Berks.  

 

On a less than exciting side note MTH advised on their facebook page that they do not think there will be an S gauge catalog by spring York. 

 

Ben

Two questions:

 

Why the secrecy about the location of this catalog?

 

When will it be available for the rest of us?

 

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom

 

now

 

lionel.com. 

 

Ben 

 

The AmFlyer catalog is sort of bitter sweet.  Last year, when Lionel announced the Berkshire freight set (again) I was really hopeful. It looked like a great set, etc.  Fast forward to today - no freight set but we do get a non-PE Berkshire.  I had promised myself if Lionel didn't do the Berk set, this year -2015,  I was done with AmFlyer.  I'll have to settle for just a Berk. but that's better than nothing.  Following through with production and delivery dates are another issue.

Steve

That's the same situation I'd run into when I was Modulating.  You show off how great this stuff is, but there's practically nowhere John Q. Public can buy the stuff off the shelf.

 

And suggesting they scour the internet or ebay isn't really an adequate response.

 

Rusty

Mark

In one of the notch 6 pod casts Mike R from Lionel discussed the issue with the rail sounds box car. The gizmo that detects the movement of the car was not easily adaptable form its O counter part. 

The notch 6 pod casts are full of info, and Derek does a good job of getting some S gauge info into his interviews here and there. 

Ben

Although the RTR Berkshire Freight and Passenger Sets that were cataloged in 2013 and 2014 are not in the 2015 catalog, it isn't clear to me whether they will be produced (things that have not been re-cataloged, like the smoking caboose, are still scheduled to be made). 

 

Does someone have any knowledge regarding this?

 

Thanks,

Little Tommy

 

If I were to hazard to guess, it's because not even the Flyer Polar Express set is meeting preorder expectations.

 

Rusty

Little Tommy, I didn't think of that as a possibility.  It  would be very nice if Lionel did produce the RTR Sets from previous catalogs.  I can't say enough that that is what new people to S want and need to enter the hobby.

 

Rusty,

I don't think newcomers to the hobby, or S  will jump on the pre-order bandwagon.  I think they want to see it, touch it, pay their money and take it home. Hell I don't even want to jump on the pre-order bandwagon.  I too wan to see it, touch it buy it and take it home!!

 

Aflyer

That's very likely because they wouldn't know about it.  That's the problem.  Unless these thing are in stores only folks in the hobby know about this stuff.  And even if they were in stores, there's very little available to add on (track, buildings, accessories.)

 

The A.C. Gilbert quote that CSX Troy puts at the end of his posts says it all:

 

"Moreover, experience proves that there is virtually no limit to the amount of cars, track, equipment, etc., the scale model railroader will buy once you have planted the "system" idea in his head. The more he has, the more he still wants." A.C. Gilbert Co. - 1947

 

True in 1947, true today...

 

Rusty

Mark

I don't see a lot jumping out at me, I will get one of the NKP berks, if for nothing else than to support the "cause" and mess around with the lion chief system.

I have been one of the many drawn in by the scale hi rail equipment that Lionel has been putting out and the more traditional look does not flip me that much anymore (at least in the way of new purchases).  I bought the Legacy and ZW-L based of Lionel stating that they were going to continue to grow the "scale" end of S gauge. 

I do have one of the UP rail sounds box cars on order.  I even have one of the AF smoking cabooses on order too (I think, It would have been like 3 years ago now that I placed the order).

As for new people to the hobby, RTR sets and placement.  Menards has the Lionel PE O gauge and G gauge sets (with other O and G sets as well) every year at Christmas.  Putting sets in front of people at box stores is the way to get new people in the hobby.  There is a thread about what questions to ask MTH and L...what are you going to do to get S in front of new people?  Need RTR sets and they need to be in places OTHER than your hole in the wall shop and the Internet.

Ben

Ben, great insight!
Maybe Mike Wolfe needs to pay George Menard (or whoever) a visit.  Seriously.
Offer them something "just the right size".  How many have room for O let alone G?

As one who has the D&H Alco PA's on pre-order, I am somewhat in shock that now I will need to shell out more money than they cost to buy the 4?? passenger car 2-packs??? to complete the set. I'm guessing the pre-orders for the diesels went well and we are being gouged for rolling stock. I guess I'll just have to sell off some worthless 80's era Flyonel freight stuff I never use.

Well, to put things in a little perspective, the 8 Lionel/Flyer passenger cars MSRP's at $639.80 total.

 

A set of 7 American Models Budd cars will set you back $609.80, ($519.80 if the three extra coaches are of roadnames on sale.)  Add in another extra coach to equalize the car count and you get $693.75 and $573.75 respectively.  And likewise, a full set of AM cars will cost more than the pair of locomotives, E8's in this case.

 

Now, granted, AM doesn't have any dome, baggage or combine cars and nothing in D&H, plus the AM cars have interiors.  So, it's a little of an apples to peaches comparison, but the AM cars are the only other streamline cars available.

 

Rusty

Nassau Hobby Center has all the passender cars on pre order for $479.96.  This is 25% off list so much cheaper that AM stuff.

... and, a full dome car is not prototypical for the D&H. I believe that the D&H ran baggage cars but not streamlined combinations, so one could stop at 6 cars, skip the 6-47906 2-pack and save ~$120. Now we are down to $360. Such a deal! 

 

Bob

That's a good point Bob which is why I never went for an Erie full vista either. Given my track record though, at some point I'll have "why didn't I get that" remorse and pay way more on ebay or something equally as foolish. Rusty, your point is well taken but I would add that AM passenger cars are so much nicer than Flyer's I would buy them instead if they were available.

I like long passenger trains so what is prototypical doesn't matter to me.  A lot of railroads did't use PAs but toy train companies make them anyway for those railroads.  People who visit my trainroom just like to see these trains running.

Fair enough. Just pointing out 'justifiable' options. 

 

Bob

After all my soul searching I ordered all the D&H cars and an Erie Berk.