In 1998 Lionel Veranda was going to use stackable DC Brushless Motors

The production version ended up with a couple 8000 series Pittman motors. Pretty good compromise if you ask me.

The TOOG's used to call it the "Odd-No-See" motor.

Jon

MED,

Thanks for posting that.  I certainly remember those days when Lionel was advertising its new motor and the speed control that would come with it.  I also remember the uncertainty when it was apparent that the motor was not going to be made, and how would Lionel get speed control into its engines? Luckily it all worked out, although the Veranda was delayed for a couple of years as I recall.  Those were some exciting times at the York meet as well, as Lionel and MTH were competing and around that time Lionel announced that TMCC would be made available to other manufacturers. 

If you look at the picture of the Lionel group you'll see a much younger Bob Grubba who went on to Broadway Limited.  The gentleman kneeling with the longer red hair was named Rich (can't remember his last name), and he came to York a couple of times to demonstrate the new Legacy system to attendees when it was first released.  I wonder how many of the people in that picture are still with the company?   

It would have been neat to see how an Odyssey motor that could be stacked would have worked, and it's fun to look at older catalogs to see what manufacturers wanted to do at a certain time.  Thanks again for sharing!   

@Notch 6 Derek Thomas if I'm not mistaken managed to get an Odyssey motor in the big Lionel auction years back.  If he did, maybe he could show us what he got.  He also got the ZW with the "Flying Fader" technology where the the handles moved when you adjusted the Cab 1 remote.

@Rob N posted:

If you look at the picture of the Lionel group you'll see a much younger Bob Grubba who went on to Broadway Limited.  The gentleman kneeling with the longer red hair was named Rich (can't remember his last name), and he came to York a couple of times to demonstrate the new Legacy system to attendees when it was first released.

Rich Mosher

I love the Veranda ad, $1499 MSRP back then!

Marty,

That's neat Derek got an actual motor, certainly a unique piece of Lionel product development that never came.  At least the Veranda made it to production! I remember the ZW with moving handles! (Yard Boss?)  That was in the Lionel tent back then.  Didn't know they were called "Flying Fader".   

Keith L, thanks!  I remember Rich coming to the Fall 2007 York show to demonstrate Legacy, the system was not quite released yet and the new Legacy Big Boys were only about 2-3 weeks from arriving at dealers.  Rich did a good job demonstrating and answered the many questions us excited attendees had.  One of my favorite York shows, so much excitement it seemed. 

John, yes that engine was expensive even by today's standards!  But a great engine no doubt.  I liked those catalogs of 1998-1999 and what they offered. 

Rob

@Rob N posted:

John, yes that engine was expensive even by today's standards!  But a great engine no doubt.  I liked those catalogs of 1998-1999 and what they offered.

I bought my like-new Veranda for $450 a few years ago, and I was happy to get it.

the Odyssey motor would have been awesome but the cost and the fact that apparently it didn't have enough torque really killed the concept.

maybe lionel can try to bring it back one day.

what other locomotives was it supposed to be in?

Hey all,

Bonus points to @MartyE for remembering that I did acquire one these about three years ago. Since then I have added to that group and I think I'm up to three Odyssey motors in various states of completion. My newest acquisition came over the summer when I was sent a prototype of a Pullmor motor that had integrated speed control built into the top. It's quite the marvel. I'll try and remember to grab some photos in the future to post.

The Odyssey was destine to be a motor that was used across the line. For multiple reasons, the project died on the vine. What did come out of the project was that Lionel discovered that they could get most of the benefits of the Odyssey motor with a standard can motor namely the speed control. I have played around with "Stacking" the motors and it really was a neat idea. Sadly the engineering / cost realities just crept in on this project and killed it.

Glad people still remember this project almost 24 years later.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I bought my like-new Veranda for $450 a few years ago, and I was happy to get it.

I was actively looking to buy one when Lionel announced the Legacy version.

What I still remember from those days is the price of the FT diesels.  Today we have them with smoke and more for less than half the price!

Jon

@paigetrain posted:

maybe lionel can try to bring it back one day.

I'd much rather see them start using brushless DC motors, they basically last forever and have excellent operating characteristics.

GRJ, would the brushless motor be the end for the ERR line?

@romiller49 posted:

GRJ, would the brushless motor be the end for the ERR line?

Not really as it would only be in presumably new higher end locomotives which already have command and sound.

Having worked my whole career in the computer storage industry, I have seen many ideas that were to costly, or not possible with the technology readily, that disappeared, only to come back as a similar idea 5 years or so later, when new technology allowed and/or mfg processes made the idea possible and at affordable cost.

I worked in aerospace, cockpit instrumentation and fuel gauging.  Of course, cost was not a major driver, so we used a lot of brushless motors before the glass cockpit took over.

Didn't one of the prototypes get stolen at York?

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

Didn't one of the prototypes get stolen at York?

Wow, that would take stones.  Of course, we had a scale C&O Greenbriar stolen at a club open house, so it's certainly possible!

This was back when Lionel was out in the tent by yellow hall. Kinda gnarly if true.

It certainly is true.

This is very cool. I would think the next evolution for motors would be to go brushless. I see brushless motors every day on a larger scale for HVAC, and most of those are going to a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD). They would definitely need to protect the electronics from transit voltages. I just had a motor controller today that was damaged by a thunderstorm a couple of days ago.

I’m looking forward to the new Veranda hope it doesn’t get stuck on a boat too long.

I read about the Odyssey motor prototype being pinched at York some years ago as well.  I thought it was a one of a kind and that it would eventually show up at a sale?  Evidently there were at least a couple!

As I recall, there were some nasty goings-on between the more radical elements of the MTH vs. Lionel cheerleading squads. This theft may have been an outcome thereof.

I find it odd that there haven't been further attempts to experiment with brushless motors on O Gauge locomotives...they are so common in the RC hobby that it's actually a bit of a challenge to find speed controllers (with reverse) that are still compatible with old-style brushed DC motors.

---PCJ

@RailRide posted:

I find it odd that there haven't been further attempts to experiment with brushless motors on O Gauge locomotives...they are so common in the RC hobby that it's actually a bit of a challenge to find speed controllers (with reverse) that are still compatible with old-style brushed DC motors.

I don't find it odd at all.

There is really only two makers of control systems in O-gauge (maybe 1 1/2 now), and they have absolutely no incentive to go to the expense and time to redesign the motor control for brushless motors.  While I believe they'd be a superior motor, I'm sure the prevailing wisdom (tongue in cheek) at Lionel and MTH is that the motors they use and buy for a buck or two are good enough.  Add to that the control electronics are fully developed and in volume production, and it just doesn't make financial sense to change.

So it sounds like that Odyssey motor went on an odyssey of its own huh? Hmm.