Insurance for train collection!

Insurance through Train Collector's Association gave me no issues when a significant amount of trains were stolen.  I submitted an inventory of missing items with what I perceived the values to be, the insurance company cross-checked with their TCA contact who confirmed my values, and I quickly received a check for the full amount. 

They have two types of policies, one covers you for each item you list and is a little cheaper.  This is for folks whose collections don't change often.  The other type of policy is blanket coverage for a set amount.  You don't need to list individual items.  This is for folks whose collection changes a lot or if you do a lot of buying and selling and your inventory changes a lot.  Coverage costs about 8% of declared value and is what I have.

The carrier is J.A. Bash.

Is that coverage on an annual basis?  If so, my cost would be higher than my car insurance.  I have heard good things about TCA's insurance providers, but 8% seems a little high compared to a homeowner's policy.  I understand that a homeowner's policy doesn't provide quite the same coverage as well.

A homeowners policy is not designed to cover collectibles such as toy trains.  You could buy an 'all risk' floater policy and list items individually.  Probably would have a percentage deductible.

Or, you could go to a company sponsored but TCA or one of the other collector organizations and get a policy that is designed for your particular need.

I've been with American Collectors Insurance for quite a while now.  They are quite reasonable and will pay replacement cost should a loss occur.  Of course, I've never had to file a claim -- thankfully. 

@Pre-War Steve posted:

I've been with American Collectors Insurance for quite a while now.  They are quite reasonable and will pay replacement cost should a loss occur.  Of course, I've never had to file a claim -- thankfully.

Without giving away your collections worth, approximately what is the cost say on a per $1000 basis?   

@Merlin posted:

Hello, I was just wondering if anybody ever collected on a train collection policy they had purchased. If anybody has a policy from a trusted insurance company I would appreciate it. I am looking for a trust worthy insurance company that would insure my collection. I have been dealing with home insurance companies that I had during the flood and it’s a constant fight with them to get them pay for the basics. I have one of the top insurance companies in NJ and they are playing games with me. They say things like your furnace was 10 years old so we will cover 50% of the furnace. Your water heater is 5 years old we will pay 75% of that. I also lost my vehicle and they are trying to short change me and not give me the Kelly blue book price. This is one big headache and I have papers all over my desk. My head is spinning and can’t sleep.

I can only image the frustration you are going through with the insurance company.  They are so vey eager to take your money but so darned stingy in paying off a claim.   

Years ago I went through a claim after a robbery of our home.  It was a nightmare as at the time of the robbery, the police insisted on a list.  After providing a list I discovered other items that I hadn't initially noticed.  The insurance company gave me a hard time on the additional items.   Of course the insurance company didn't want to give me replacement cost.  So I told them to go out and find the same item and condition and give it to me.   In the end they felt it wiser to simply pay it off and not argue with me.

When an event like that takes place, you are flustered and not necessarily thinking straight yet the police and the insurance company want a detailed list on the spot.

I hope in the end it works out for you - just don't give in as that is their MO to make you so upset you will take whatever settlement they throw at you.

Boy, that really stinks !  I don’t know that we can help you, but you have helped raised awareness with us that we should be better prepared.  (I live in a tornado prone area). My agent did tell me to document, document, document whatever we have.

Also, when presenting a claim, do not overlook Public Adjusters. They take a percent of the claim, as a fee. But they can talk to the carriers in their lingo, so you do get more. Also, they are not emotionally involved, as a victim would be. I worked on the inside in the insurance industry, as an attorney. They do not like a "PA" as they are called. I can still hear groaning from the Claims Department when they found out a PA was involved. Mark

@Merlin posted:

They say things like your furnace was 10 years old so we will cover 50% of the furnace. Your water heater is 5 years old we will pay 75% of that. I also lost my vehicle and they are trying to short change me and not give me the Kelly blue book price. This is one big headache and I have papers all over my desk. My head is spinning and can’t sleep.

Merlin,

I'm sorry for your loss, but ...

Odds are that you didn't read your policy carefully when you received it.   When I checked mine the rules for paying claims are "clearly" stated.

Very few insurance companies offer full replacement value policies, and as you would expect they are very expensive if you do take one.  More than likely you don't have one -- that's why you're only getting a percentage on your older stuff.

In the same vein most policies will not pay the Kelley Blue Book value on a car.

Read your policy before you have a situation requiring that you file a claim.  There's no arguing here -- it's a valid contract.  Now, is the language in it actually clear and unambiguous?  Probably not.  That's why @barrister.2u's advice about retaining a Public Adjuster is right on the mark.  Among other things they get paid to sort through the language afterward.

If you read through your policy when you get it and don't like the wording get a new insurance company -- before you need to file a claim.  If you need help consult an attorney to help clarify it.  (I have to do this frequently with contracts involving my small business.)

Is this fair?  No.  Is it real?  Yes.

Mike

I think these are the guys I use.  I only think of them every January when I need to pay my dues.  Cheaper than the TCA insurance. 

https://collectinsure.com/

Went thru the same crap after Sandy. Insurance policy - the first 20 pages is what they will cover. The next 40 pages is exculpatory language, stating why they won’t cover it.

Make sure that your homeowners policy is written on a replacement cost basis.

Flood insurance is a different animal and you may have actual cash value coverage… replacement cost less deprecation. Claims can be a real pain.

8% of the value is a crazy high rate. Are you sure that the rate is not .80/100?

A public adjuster can make a tremendous difference on a significant claim. A good one knows all the ins and outs and maximizes your return.

After 39 years in the business as an agent, I believe that most adjusters try to be fair; like in anything else, there are exceptions. Be sure that you have a good agent who knows his business. The time to prepare for a claim is before a loss.

@Bill Webb posted:

Make sure that your homeowners policy is written on a replacement cost basis.

Flood insurance is a different animal and you may have actual cash value coverage… replacement cost less deprecation. Claims can be a real pain.

8% of the value is a crazy high rate. Are you sure that the rate is not .80/100?

A public adjuster can make a tremendous difference on a significant claim. A good one knows all the ins and outs and maximizes your return.

After 39 years in the business as an agent, I believe that most adjusters try to be fair; like in anything else, there are exceptions. Be sure that you have a good agent who knows his business. The time to prepare for a claim is before a loss.

Very wise words of advice, especially the last sentence.

Help me understand where I may be off base.

Insurance company wants to pay you $6,700 for your loss of $10,000 worth of covered property.

Public Adjuster gets you the $10,000 payout for your loss and takes their State of Pennsylvania allowed 33% fee as situations permit.

Revenue neutral.

Another way to look at it is,   forgetting the actual dollar number but just look at the percentages.

If the public adjuster gets you 50% more than the insurance company wants to pay but can take a 33% fee if conditions are favorable (to them).  Then you wind up with essentially the same amount of net proceeds.

Some states like Delaware have very low state regulated public adjuster fees (DE limit 2.5% for the first $25,000) in the low single figures.   Public adjusters living in DE simply cross the state line, get a Pennsylvania license and only practice in Pennsylvania for the big money.

Great responses here... and a lot to think about when it comes to insuring the fruits of our collective labors!  Kazar:  my apologies for the tardy response, but it's roughly .50 per month per $1,000.  (Bear in mind, math was never my strong suit -- and I haven't yet had my morning coffee )

@Tom Tee posted:

Public Adjuster gets you the $10,000 payout for your loss and takes their State of Pennsylvania allowed 33% fee as situations permit.

Public Adjuster fees are negotiable, that's just the maximum.  The NY maximum is 12.5%.

Can you get a rider on your homeowner insurance like can be done for jewelry?  It may require an appraisal of the more valuable trains and cover only the most valuable trains.  I my case I would not have any trains to insure.

Charlie

An 8% annual premium for coverage of personal property is laughably high.

You would, in effect, be repurchasing your entire train collection every 10 years or so.

I believe that there is either a mistake in reading the quote, or a typo somewhere along the line.

You could instead put that 8% every year in a medium mutual fund every year and probably do quite well.

Unless you expressly buy a replacement value or cost of replacement policy, and believe me, your policy will say this, you are only entitled to the fair market value of any property you lost.

You don't get to buy a brand new item, and you don't get to recover "what you think" it is worth, just because you want to.

READ YOUR POLICY, ESPECIALLY THE DEFINITIONS SECTION.  It is in plain English.  And, for goodness sake, read the Exclusions from coverage.

There are special add-on endorsements for everything under the sun, just ask.  :-)

Think you got it bad?  How would you like to be an antique rifle dealer who has $100,000 worth of antique rifles in your car when you drive cross- country to a major gun show for display or sales?   (That's only about eight classic rifles.)  :-O

Mannyrock

Sorry all, I shouldn't write that late at night.  I forgot the decimal.  The flat insurance rate through TCA for declared value is around 0.8%, not 8%.  I pay $545 or so on $70,000 declared value, which probably gives me coverage to a little higher than that. 

A very easy mistake to make.

Mannyrock

Thanks for all the feedback from you guys I really appreciate it. I can’t live in my home right now due to a crack in my foundation the inspector red stickered my house. I can go in and out but the crack in the foundation must be fixed before My family and I can go back in. He was cool about it as several foundations caved in around me. I did hire a PA and he has been great working with the insurance companies and FEMA. His fee is 20% and he is also doing several other houses in my neighborhood. I never thought this would happen to me. I never expected 8-10 inches of rain in 4 hours either. I am definitely getting train insurance. I am going to call some of those phone numbers you guys have listed on this thread. If you have a big collection get it insured. Good news, I followed the directions you guys gave me on cleaning my big boys. One worked the other one bit the dust. Too much brown sewer water inside when I opened it up. I’m grateful for bringing life back in just the one. Thanks again for all your help guys.