It's A Sad Practice

I promise not to mention if I'm going to rip out the electronics when I buy something from you.

Don't be too sad Bobby.  It's part of real railroading.  Some locomotives have to give up their parts so that others can live on.

 

 

It doesn't bother me. If someone buy's a PS-2 engine from me it's their business what they want to do with it.

It's part of the process. As Steims said above, "Some locomotive have to give up their parts so others can live on."

 

I have a couple of 5V PS2 steam locomotives that are down and had thought about sacrificing a Rail King engine for its boards. The only thing that keeps that from happening is the price of the Rail King units out on eBay. I think of it in terms of operation rather than collectibility. I view it the same as buying a unit for the sole purpose of re-decorating it for a road I want.

Cannibalization, not just for PS2 but other purposes, seems like a perfectly good practice to me if the owner thinks it is worth it.  As observed above, it happens in real life, too. 

 

But in deference to your feelings about it I won't mention this Legacy loco I just took apart . . .

Some things must die so that others may live, such is life.

 

I can see myself doing this in the near future, there are some nice PS1 engines with good price points.  Couple that with a low priced RK PS2 and boom, winner winner chicken dinner for me.

When I sell and have received payment for a locomotive or other train item, I couldn't care less what the buyer does with it.

Folks have been cannibalizing toy trains to fix other pieces for as long as I have been in the hobby.

I can think of at least two Lionel parts dealers who specialized in selling used parts from pieces he would purchase specifically to disassemble for parts.

The sad part is that they have to be cannibalized in the first place. These companies are selling us toys they know we will never get parts for, or for a very short time till their stock of 50 pieces runs out.

You would not see this kind of thing happening if MTH would make the boards and kits available at affordable prices. And keep a steady supply of kits available.

But from MTH point of view I am sure they purposely keep the supply of kits tight so as to promote sales of new engines with new electronics.

 

Rod

As everyone here has posted, cannibalization is an accepted practice in machine husbandry.

 

The original sin lies with MTH itself.  When they began making O scale trains in 1993, they knowingly used toylike gear ratios with a much higher top speed than the Williams and Weaver brass that Mike and Andy Edelman had been selling in their hobby store.  If they had been geared right in the first place (or re-geared circa 2000 when PS2 was introduced) there would have been no need for fancy speed control electronics.  Think about it: when was the last time you had a DCRU fail?

 

All of these locos would still be operable in their original configuration AND there would be no glut of PS1s because they would start slow and maintain speed nearly as well by virtue of a low gear ratio.  MTH PS1's would have become the 3-rail equivalent of US Hobbies brass: durable, good runners, and good candidates for adding detail if desired.

 

It's possible that the eventual availability of PS3 upgrades and cross-grading to other systems like the ERR Cruise Commander will result in older PS2s being spared.  My $.02.

It is even sadder that replacement PS1/PS2 electronics is not readily available from the manufacturer and that far too many hobbyists and hobby professionals feel  that situation as an O.K. business practice!

 

I wouldn't put it past them, but I have heard from multiple sources that the reason for the shortage of MTH kits is a global shortage of the specific IC's needed to make them. It doesn't matter much to me anyway; I've put any further purchases of kits on hold until the PS/3 kits come out. Smaller, easier to install, and no battery. 

Generally, I don't disagree with the poster's original thought -- it's a bit sad to see toy trains canibalized -- but at the same time once someone owns something it is that person's decision.  To me, the bigger issue is why are we buying things from companies that do not support the older products and keep faith with the customer.  An example from a completely different realm:  one of the reasons I will buy, generally new or nearly new, German cars like MB or BMW is that those companies support the cars with parts long after they are out of production.  Thus I can get parts for my '86 MB and '94 BMW as readily as I can get parts for our '09 MB.  That's the way it used to be with trains -- you could always find the parts for the older items.  Now, particularly with items such as, for example, the new ZW-L or many MTH engines, you wonder if they are making these products disposable.  I am neither cheap nor poor, but I won't spend big bucks on something that even hints of being disposable.   With trains, fortunately we all still have some choices and I do think, to be fair, the quality of much of the newer equipment is very good -- certainly much better than it was when I was a kid in the 1970s. 

 

That's all a long way of saying the poster's original question identifies a symptom, but not the problem. 

I for one am a happy guy because of this 'parts stealing'!!! I have a project almost done that started with two MTH RK 2-8-0 locos. I stripped both and repainted for WM. I made my own decals. I then bought a WbB DCU unit and wired it so the one DCU controls both locos. Now I have, almost, A set of locos that double head nicely and reproduce the locos my Dad always talks about watching on Slaty Fork WV. And my total investment was less than $125!!! So bring on the butchered locos!!

 

These were both units that had their boards removed. They were NYC and a football scheme IIRC. Found on ebay CHEAP!! MTH must have dumped them as one seller had 10 for sela at the time.

 

The lead unit....the other has a operating coupler installed on front.

The issue is with proprietary command/sound electronics in the OP's case.

 

Folks in other scales don't have that problem.  If a DCC decoder goes *foom*, they simply replace it with another from one of the many companies offering them.

 

Rusty

When was the last time you could get parts for your 15 year old computer. Every three years you have to replace your computer to stay current if needed. Electronic parts become obsolete and the mfgs. Just don't make them no more because there is no demand. 

 

Ps1 is obsolete and soon ps2 will be the same, it is just the way of the technology age. 

 

Btw my 7 year old computer failed last year and there are no parts to fix it, now they could have used some old parts but the labor and the used parts would have cost me more then a new computer should the mfg. have stocked parts to fix this old computer?  NO. 

While you may not be able to get the "original" parts for some of these items I've yet to see a loco that couldn't be run by substituting some other component into it.  I've bought RailKing engines without PS-1 electronics specifically to gut and replace with something else (TMCC boards, different electronic e-unit, etc).   Some of the engines are now on their third transplant.  I'd rather see this happen than have the items wind up in a recyclers dumpster or a landfill.  Very few, if any, of these items will ever qualify as "collectors" items 30-40 years from now so lack of original guts is problematic.

BMW Motorcycles has a program called Mobile Tradition.  Many parts are available for bikes 60 years old and older. Prices are very high, but thats of secondary concern when someone is restoring their favorite to running and cosmetic condition. Think of the cost of maintaining that kind of inventory. I ordered a set of springs for a BMW R60 that was over 50 years old and the one spring came in a week from Germany, the second spring was designated "back ordered to outside vender". They actually had one manufactured and it came in about 3 weeks. This country has a lot to learn about tradition and brand loyality. 

I have no problem with those who gut engines; in fact it provides me with a source of RK engines to add TMCC to without having to pay for the MTH electronics.

jackson

I agree that it is sad, but it is a sad situation forced on us by the manufacturers.

 

Mom and dad had a 1989 Kirby vacuum cleaner that recently lost a front bearing.

 

I was able to order ALL of the internal parts to completely rebuild it to like-new status, not just replace the bearings and brushes that were worn.  This is after @ 24 years. 

 

That's standing behind your product.  And I didn't have to hunt down another Kirby to cut up to get pieces off of, etc.

Obviously no one but the purchaser can know what is intended.

 

As to how "sad" this makes me, I'd only be concerned if it was a unit with actual unique electrical functionality that was canibalized.  (such as taking a station stops capable board from a trolley or subway as a generic replacement for a steamer or diesel)

 

As a corrolary, If I had a board die in one of my less common subway sets (original R-21 Redbird,or Worlds Fair R-36 as examples), I'd certainly try to buy a more common specimen with compatible boards to obtain the electronics if I needed to go that route.

 

-Dave

 

The original sin lies with MTH itself.

Now that's hilarious! It's MTH's fault that I go to the local monthly train show and buy used parts for Pre-War Lionel... 

With all due respect you are comparing apples and oranges. BMW is a billion dollar company while our train mfgs are tiny in comparison. You just cannot keep parts in inventory for every little thing manufactured especially electronic parts. As I have stated before they become obsolete. A buddy of mine has a 1940 ford and can get original and reproduction parts for it anytime. There are companies that deal in that kind of stuff.

 

Brand loyalty is a thing of the past, who makes the best product is what I buy. This year it may be one brand and the following  year it is somebody else. I never bought anything on brand loyalty and still don't. Brand does not mean quality, I have had BMW, Mercedes, Harley and many others and each one have had products that were abysmal.

Sounds like a great small business opportunity for someone to go out and secure funding in order to reverse engineer and manufacture all the discontinued, outdated and obsolete electronics from Lionel and MTH!

 

After all, how hard could it be? 

 

Then just sit back and wait for the orders to come rolling in.

 

Rusty

I don't know if it's possible, but could the trains that have had their electronics stripped out be set up to be run as straight analog?

No bells or whistles, just a simple runner for those who have old transformers.

Dave

Gentlemen,

   I have to admit the lack of parts for P2 engines is a concern, however when I purchase an engine or anything else, it becomes my private property and I will do with it as I please.

PCRR/Dave

Yes, I refer to it as a "neutered" loco.  I've done it a few times, installing a 6 amp full wave rectifier - about $6 at Radio Shack and a double throw switch for R-F. 

 

However, for only a bit more money, and virtually no additional work (you have to take it apart anyway) you can go ahead and put an aftermarket soundboard and e-unit in it and make it closer to the original.

What are your thoughts about cannibalization?

 

LOL, they are toy trains for crying out loud. Certainly not something that is important to the survival of mankind.

If it meant that much to me in the first place I wouldn't be selling it.  

Don't we cannibalize parts off of Postwar items?

I promise not to buy MTH engines!!!

 

gunny

I wouldn't call it "cannibalization". I would call it re-purposing of parts to better suit our current priorities.

 

Give me your tired defunct electronic locos

old trains yearning to run again

the wretched refuse of your teeming store

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I will put rectifiers in them to set them free

 

The local repair guy has already had to cannibalize a few low end and one high end PS3 engines because he couldn't get parts for customer repairs

Real railroads, rapid transit companies etc have been doing it all along. When I was a kid in the early 60s there was a dark corner of the old PTC Woodland Ave car barn with at least 20 PCC cars damaged in accidents being canabalized for parts. 

Dear Mr Ogage,

 

We have your PS-2 engine and have enclosed a cut-off LED as proof. Send 80ft of FasTrack or the next picture will be your disassembled engine

Baldwin units purchased by SMS Lines for the specific purpose of supplying parts to keep the railroad's operable locomotives running:

 

 

Bob

Shh. We got a nice trolley that way! (the guys run conventional.)

 

--Becky

I prefer the term "Organ Donor"