Steamer posted:I've seen those on e bay and and train shows, usually cheap
Good to know, the search begins.
dogdoc posted:I enjoy the challenge of refurbishing stuff more than layout/scenery stuff although I am building a runners layout ton a ping pong table now, one I can change frequently. I have some old rusty track soaking in some metal rescue now. I will report back on how it works. A lot say it is not worth it but it is cheap and I like the challenge. Old track can be refurbished with maroon scotch bright and some type of oil. Use a small drill or something for the pin holes to ream them to remove internal rust. Get a greenburg repair manual for Lionel trains
Exactly, and a ping pong table, Nice. A sight to be seen I'm sure. Keep me posted about that track of yours. The adventure of restoring that track of mine will begin soon enough. It's no fun to say it can't be saved and just buy new. It's easy to say buy buy buy, but after the amount of fun I had this past month with the fast track I need to slow that down a bit if you know what I mean. I need to coast for a bit here.
First time I have heard of a Greenburg repair manual. Thanks.
mlaughlinnyc posted:Ryaninspiron posted:
That locomotive and tender need scrubbing with WD-40 and a stiff toothbrush. I've used Wd-40 on many locols and tenders that looked like yours.
Give us some photos of the loco and tender detail, and we can give you some ideas of what's needed.
Glad you asked, I took some good closeups of everything this morning and was getting ready to post them. I also used a damp paper towel on a test spot of both the loco and tender. Had to run to work but I will do some more test spots on both tonight and post those as well.
It's certainly a combination of simple mold but also pushed up paint patches due to oxidization. the top of the loco especially seems to have the biggest issue with paint.
Looking again at that transformer, I can't clearly see the fiber whistle button on the right side. Is it broken off. None of my reference sources show a transformer with that red button but no whistle control tab. Does the tender have a whistle ?
The transformer may have only surface rust and it may work. Try taking the top off. It can be pried off with a couple of strong narrow bladed screwdrivers. If the power cord is not hardened and cracked, the wires inside look good and the wiper is intact, The main safety concern is that the power connections are well isolated and the primary and secondary windings look sound. If it looks ok, the whistle button functions and you can get the handle unfrozen, then you should be able to use it. That doesn't mean the whistle control will work. You'll find out if the rectifier disk is ok when you try to blow a known working whistle.
Ryaninspiron posted:Conductor Earl posted:The milk car doors can be found at most train show parts dealers. They come complete with springs etc. and just snap in.
Thanks, I had no idea anyone was still making those. Very cool.
They're not being made, but there are several dealers who have huge inventories of original parts acquired from buying the parts stock of Lionel service stations as they left that business. Try Hennings or Dr. Tinker.
mlaughlinnyc posted:Looking again at that transformer, I can't clearly see the fiber whistle button on the right side. Is it broken off. None of my reference sources show a transformer with that red button but no whistle control tab. Does the tender have a whistle ?
The transformer may have only surface rust and it may work. Try taking the top off. It can be pried off with a couple of strong narrow bladed screwdrivers. If the power cord is not hardened and cracked, the wires inside look good and the wiper is intact, The main safety concern is that the power connections are well isolated and the primary and secondary windings look sound. If it looks ok, the whistle button functions and you can get the handle unfrozen, then you should be able to use it. That doesn't mean the whistle control will work. You'll find out if the rectifier disk is ok when you try to blow a known working whistle.
You caught me, I pressed the whistle down and it didn't come back up to my surprise. Definitely a bad spring or something I'm sure.
Thankfully since I picked up the MTH Z-1000 I have a way to test my horn in the mean time, and also compare to the original transformer once I work on it.
I the service manual I found also mentioned the resistance of the secondary windings so I will be able to confirm things look right once I open it.
From what I red this was the first to offer that reverse switch.
I saw the rectifier disks when I started looking for parts so I see they are available if needed at least.
Does anyone know what the material under the lever is? is it paper based? It seems to have swelled a bit with the moisture.
mlaughlinnyc posted:Ryaninspiron posted:Conductor Earl posted:The milk car doors can be found at most train show parts dealers. They come complete with springs etc. and just snap in.
Thanks, I had no idea anyone was still making those. Very cool.
They're not being made, but there are several dealers who have huge inventories of original parts acquired from buying the parts stock of Lionel service stations as they left that business. Try Hennings or Dr. Tinker.
Thanks, I should have figured that would be the case, I definitely be looking there.
One thing I have also noticed is that many of the couplers on these trains are pretty bad at opening, I can pull them all open but only a few of them sprung open when I pulled pushed down the lever. I am pretty sure I may need some springs for these if they are serviceable. Not sure where to start on them though. Should I be able to take those couplers apart and service them?
I am also have a few electric ones that I haven't tested at all yet.
Here are some close-ups of the 1946 steam loco:
The spot I cleaned with a wet paper towel is clear on the tender but fyi the spot I wiped on the engine is below the smoke stack.
I seem to see much more paint falling off on top of the engine then the tender, but I will have to try wiping the top of both to confirm.
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Here is the worst condition car, the log dumper.
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if that's the worst, you'll be ok
And here are the rest of the pics, the searchlight car magnetic on off switch is a bit stiff with rust and the milk car is pretty filthy, Besides that a good few of them are in pretty great shape with minimal rust. they were left in bags and the water stayed off them as a result it seems.
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I would say the radio car and culvert gondola are in the best shape and the crane is almost as good. (just a few little scratches on one side of the roof)
Ryaninspiron posted:. the top of the loco especially seems to have the biggest issue with paint.
Conversely, it's also by far the easiest piece to repaint and make look good. In that sense, you've got a good situation.
palallin posted:Ryaninspiron posted:. the top of the loco especially seems to have the biggest issue with paint.
Conversely, it's also by far the easiest piece to repaint and make look good. In that sense, you've got a good situation.
I like your outlook on the situation, It's a good thing too, I am much better at computers than painting!
Initial results on track cleaning with metal rescue are fantastic. Those who poo poo cleaning old track just want to spend money or take no pleasure in refurbishment (which is ok, to each his own). I got great electrical continuity with my testing. It takes the blueing off the ties but who cares. It was not realistic track to begin with. I took it out rinsed it, dried it and then sprayed it with some rem oil. (Wipe excess off ). I soaked it about 14 hours.
I've never bought new track. too much good used out there. and the ones that are too rusty to use make great looking abandoned sidings,scrapyard scenes, etc.
Any show you go to there will be used track for ten dollars a dozen. Looking at eBay listings right now, I see you can get many pieces for about $1.50 each including shipping.
Cleaning rust off of track isn't worth the time. I by several collections a year and get so much track with them that I don't have room for it. The first thing I do with track is check for rust. Any piece with rust goes right in the trash.
mlaughlinnyc posted:Any show you go to there will be used track for ten dollars a dozen. Looking at eBay listings right now, I see you can get many pieces for about $1.50 each including shipping.
Cleaning rust off of track isn't worth the time. I by several collections a year and get so much track with them that I don't have room for it. The first thing I do with track is check for rust. Any piece with rust goes right in the trash.
Good luck finding many shows in the southeast to buy anything . Most all track if old needs cleaning even if not rusty so you are going to spend a little time with it either way. Even rusty track can be cleaned with minimal effort and time but you have to like fooling with it.
dogdoc posted:Initial results on track cleaning with metal rescue are fantastic. Those who poo poo cleaning old track just want to spend money or take no pleasure in refurbishment (which is ok, to each his own). I got great electrical continuity with my testing. It takes the blueing off the ties but who cares. It was not realistic track to begin with. I took it out rinsed it, dried it and then sprayed it with some rem oil. (Wipe excess off ). I soaked it about 14 hours.
Very interesting, Sounds like impressive results, Thanks for the update
mlaughlinnyc posted:Any show you go to there will be used track for ten dollars a dozen. Looking at eBay listings right now, I see you can get many pieces for about $1.50 each including shipping.
Cleaning rust off of track isn't worth the time. I by several collections a year and get so much track with them that I don't have room for it. The first thing I do with track is check for rust. Any piece with rust goes right in the trash.
For me restoring this track is about sentimental value especially for my dad, who played with this as a kid with my grandfather. Plus this set was given to them after his cousin who had owned the set originally died piloting a helicopter in Vietnam. So really there is a just a lot of sentimental value in the family towards me using as much of this original set as possible. As a result I am happy to put the elbow grease in to restore it if need be.
Ryaninspiron posted:What you have is an incomplete 1405W or 1411W set. Of your cars, only the PRR gon and the 2472 caboose were available then in 1946.
WOW thanks, for finding that, it sounds like I am probably looking at a 1405W set then, Maybe the tanker is still somewhere to be found. Glad you mentioned the 1019 uncoupler, I definitely have that in the back left corner of the table if you look at the pics. It all makes sense then, Thanks. Cool to have a date and a set model number to go with them.
What a great trove!
I have my doubts about your having a 1405W set. Now, I'll admit that I'm mostly an armchair collector of postwar (meaning I have lots of books about postwar trains, and not so many of the trains themselves), but I notice a few things:
Your milk car was first available in 1947, and in that year it was cream-colored. The 2472 caboose was available in 1947. The PRR gondola was available in 1947 also, though yours has the rectangular opening in the floor which (supposedly) only 1946 production had. Your 1666 has 1947-features (the silver X on the firebox door and the sheet metal pilot truck) as well as 1946-features (the moveable bell and the metal number plate). It is not unlikely that Lionel used "old" parts from 1946 to make trains in 1947 ... a penny saved is a penny earned.
This leads me to suspect that you have a 1947 set, since this best explains the pieces you have. Probably an uncatalogued set, as one source indicates that the 1666 was not catalogued in 1947. Unfortunately, I don't have information on what sets were made that year, but someone else probably does.
The Erie Alcos, log dump car, cattle car, and searchlight car were all available in the 1952 - 1953 range, so those might comprise a set. The operating gateman you have already dated to 1954 (or later), so that was probably bought separately.
Other than your "frankensteamer" 1666, the most interesting piece is the crane car. That basic car was made for over a decade, but only in 1956 did it bear the number 656025. The other years, it was just 6560. The crane car, flat car with trailers and loader, culvert car with unloader, and bay window caboose were all available in 1956. So it is likely that those are also a set - wonder what the engine would have been?
Be careful if you clean that bay-window caboose. It appears to be rubber-stamped rather than heat stamped. I have been told that some of the rubber stamped lettering Lionel used in that time period is actually water-soluble! (Specifically the O27 Gulf tank cars, and the Northern Pacific GP). This might be, too.
Anyway, that's what I've been able to gather from my books. Enjoy your trains!
nickaix posted:Ryaninspiron posted:What you have is an incomplete 1405W or 1411W set. Of your cars, only the PRR gon and the 2472 caboose were available then in 1946.
WOW thanks, for finding that, it sounds like I am probably looking at a 1405W set then, Maybe the tanker is still somewhere to be found. Glad you mentioned the 1019 uncoupler, I definitely have that in the back left corner of the table if you look at the pics. It all makes sense then, Thanks. Cool to have a date and a set model number to go with them.
What a great trove!
I have my doubts about your having a 1405W set. Now, I'll admit that I'm mostly an armchair collector of postwar (meaning I have lots of books about postwar trains, and not so many of the trains themselves), but I notice a few things:
Your milk car was first available in 1947, and in that year it was cream-colored. The 2472 caboose was available in 1947. The PRR gondola was available in 1947 also, though yours has the rectangular opening in the floor which (supposedly) only 1946 production had. Your 1666 has 1947-features (the silver X on the firebox door and the sheet metal pilot truck) as well as 1946-features (the moveable bell and the metal number plate). It is not unlikely that Lionel used "old" parts from 1946 to make trains in 1947 ... a penny saved is a penny earned.
This leads me to suspect that you have a 1947 set, since this best explains the pieces you have. Probably an uncatalogued set, as one source indicates that the 1666 was not catalogued in 1947. Unfortunately, I don't have information on what sets were made that year, but someone else probably does.
The Erie Alcos, log dump car, cattle car, and searchlight car were all available in the 1952 - 1953 range, so those might comprise a set. The operating gateman you have already dated to 1954 (or later), so that was probably bought separately.
Other than your "frankensteamer" 1666, the most interesting piece is the crane car. That basic car was made for over a decade, but only in 1956 did it bear the number 656025. The other years, it was just 6560. The crane car, flat car with trailers and loader, culvert car with unloader, and bay window caboose were all available in 1956. So it is likely that those are also a set - wonder what the engine would have been?
Be careful if you clean that bay-window caboose. It appears to be rubber-stamped rather than heat stamped. I have been told that some of the rubber stamped lettering Lionel used in that time period is actually water-soluble! (Specifically the O27 Gulf tank cars, and the Northern Pacific GP). This might be, too.
Anyway, that's what I've been able to gather from my books. Enjoy your trains!
Wow Excellent detective work! I figured I at about two different years of items, but you made it pretty clear there was at least 3 years represented across everything. I mean who ever went to the train store just once and was done!
My dad says he's pretty sure he remembers the 2465 O27 Sunoco Tank Car (which also was in the 1405W set, but I haven't gone back to check for it yet.) Very cool about the different date identifications based on little features like an x on the firebox door. it's like Lionel left us clues on purpose.
On the note of that other set, very interesting, I did not consider there might be 3 sets total here. Good eyes on that crane car number. And I will have to ask if anyone in my family remembers a 3rd engine, I didn't consider that.
I am glad you warned me about that stamped lettering! I wonder if (assuming I find it) the Sunoco Tank Car had that issue.
Again Thanks for the your amazing detective work.
After a bit more research, I have no doubt that you have a 1946 set. Here are a few items gleaned from a couple of Greenberg books, Lionel catalogs and Doyle's catalog of Lionel train sets.
In 1947, the 1042 transformer replaced the 1041. No train sets are shown with the 1666 in the 1947 catalog. According to Greenberg, the 1947 1666 had a fixed bell. Yours is the two piece type. A 1666 set No. 3105W was in the 1948 advance catalog, but not in the consumer catalog. The 2026 in 1948 was a 1666 with smoke unit added.
The only set with the Erie units was 1467W in 1953. It included 6456 LV hopper, 6465 tank, 6656 stock and 6357 caboose.
Looks to me like your grandfather got only one set and added to it in the years from 1947 to The 3462 milk car was first available in 1947. The latest that I see are the barrel car made until 1958 and the track cleaner to 1960, but both of those were available in 1956.
Looks to me as if your grandfather was a boy who got a first train set and then gradually added to it over the next 10 years. It would be interesting to know his age when he got the first set - I suspect not much younger than me. I got my first set in 1942 and added to it until 1949 when I switched to HO. Would have been adding to Lionel for 10 years if I hadn't gotten interested in model building. My first kit was an O gauge scale box car that I had hoped to add to my Lionel trains, but couldn't figure out how to put Lionel couplers on it.
RYANINSPIRON.......I have collected Lionel for a while and thought I would mention a few things I learned when restoring,cleaning up and putting older PW back in operation. Some just need a good cleaning and lubrication,others like your 1666 steamer a bit more work.
Plastic shells and some die cast items respond well to warm water,Dawn dish soap and a soft brush. On plastic items be careful on decals and other applied markings. Blot carefully and dry with warm air. On steamers some of the cab numbers are very fragile. Generally on metal items I disassemble completely and soak most parts in K4 kerosene usually outside. Lowe's has a K4 replacement that is low odor. A few things like electrocouplers I do not immerse in solvent. If the item is electrical like smoke units give some thought to what can be immersed. CRC QD electronic cleaner is good on some items. The Greenberg book that has been mentioned is a good investment when reassembling. Oil bushings and bearings,grease gears. Red and Tacky grease and Liquid Bearings oil is what I use. Apply lubricants very lightly. Good luck and enjoy your trains!
Richard
Forgot to mention a new product, Evapo-Rust that I use on rusted items. It will change the color of some chemically blackened things like tender frames. Seems to work well on rusty screws also.
Richard
mlaughlinnyc posted:After a bit more research, I have no doubt that you have a 1946 set. Here are a few items gleaned from a couple of Greenberg books, Lionel catalogs and Doyle's catalog of Lionel train sets.
In 1947, the 1042 transformer replaced the 1041. No train sets are shown with the 1666 in the 1947 catalog. According to Greenberg, the 1947 1666 had a fixed bell. Yours is the two piece type. A 1666 set No. 3105W was in the 1948 advance catalog, but not in the consumer catalog. The 2026 in 1948 was a 1666 with smoke unit added.
The only set with the Erie units was 1467W in 1953. It included 6456 LV hopper, 6465 tank, 6656 stock and 6357 caboose.
Looks to me like your grandfather got only one set and added to it in the years from 1947 to The 3462 milk car was first available in 1947. The latest that I see are the barrel car made until 1958 and the track cleaner to 1960, but both of those were available in 1956.
Looks to me as if your grandfather was a boy who got a first train set and then gradually added to it over the next 10 years. It would be interesting to know his age when he got the first set - I suspect not much younger than me. I got my first set in 1942 and added to it until 1949 when I switched to HO. Would have been adding to Lionel for 10 years if I hadn't gotten interested in model building. My first kit was an O gauge scale box car that I had hoped to add to my Lionel trains, but couldn't figure out how to put Lionel couplers on it.
It's cool to hear that we are really dialing in on what I am looking at, The rest of my family will certainly love to hear you've uncovered. I will see if I can find out any more details for you too.
It is also very cool to hear from someone who was actually buying these trains at the same time frame. Thanks for sharing.
Rppoind posted:RYANINSPIRON.......I have collected Lionel for a while and thought I would mention a few things I learned when restoring,cleaning up and putting older PW back in operation. Some just need a good cleaning and lubrication,others like your 1666 steamer a bit more work.
Plastic shells and some die cast items respond well to warm water,Dawn dish soap and a soft brush. On plastic items be careful on decals and other applied markings. Blot carefully and dry with warm air. On steamers some of the cab numbers are very fragile. Generally on metal items I disassemble completely and soak most parts in K4 kerosene usually outside. Lowe's has a K4 replacement that is low odor. A few things like electrocouplers I do not immerse in solvent. If the item is electrical like smoke units give some thought to what can be immersed. CRC QD electronic cleaner is good on some items. The Greenberg book that has been mentioned is a good investment when reassembling. Oil bushings and bearings,grease gears. Red and Tacky grease and Liquid Bearings oil is what I use. Apply lubricants very lightly. Good luck and enjoy your trains!
Richard
Thanks, for the input, dawn dish soap definitely sounds like the most mild option, I like that. Good to note on the cab number, thanks. I can tell I will have to get very intimate with these Postwar electrocouplers soon, I can already tell that the manual couplers don't like to open after pressing down the lever. Not sure if the springs are bad or is it just the oxidization that I will need to clean up from the metal. Will definitely be getting that book. thanks for mentioning some products to try. I see that everyone stresses to apply lubricants lightly, will do. Thanks, -Ryan
Rppoind posted:Forgot to mention a new product, Evapo-Rust that I use on rusted items. It will change the color of some chemically blackened things like tender frames. Seems to work well on rusty screws also.
Richard
Good to know, thanks
Hi Ryan Your bio says you're from Long Island, here are the next train meets, Jan.5 in Lindenhurst and Jan 12th in Farmingville. typically there are two parts dealers at these shows and many tables of trains for sale. If you need more details email me, my address is in my profile. Also you may be interested in the charter buses to the TCA York meet in April, let me know if you want info. Lenny J
Lenny J posted:Hi Ryan Your bio says you're from Long Island, here are the next train meets, Jan.5 in Lindenhurst and Jan 12th in Farmingville. typically there are two parts dealers at these shows and many tables of trains for sale. If you need more details email me, my address is in my profile. Also you may be interested in the charter buses to the TCA York meet in April, let me know if you want info. Lenny J
Hi Lenny,
Those sound great to me but unfortunately those are the only two weekends I will be out of town. I will either need to make friends with someone who is going or something, otherwise that trip to TCA York sounds great. I have never been to a train show yet. I definitely will follow up for details though.
Ryan, here are the remaining train meet dates: Farmingville 2/9, 3/84/5, 5/3, there are also dates later in the year but I don't have them yet. The Lindenhurst dates are 2/16, 3/22,9/27 and 11/1. Hope you join us on the April bus trip to York. Lenny
Lenny J posted:Ryan, here are the remaining train meet dates: Farmingville 2/9, 3/84/5, 5/3, there are also dates later in the year but I don't have them yet. The Lindenhurst dates are 2/16, 3/22,9/27 and 11/1. Hope you join us on the April bus trip to York. Lenny
I just sent you the email.
I am glad there were more dates for the meets.
Emailed you all the meet info. Lenny
