K-Line Locomotive and Legacy Command Base - HELP

TMCC locomotives, such as your K-Line (as I suspect), only have 32 speed steps. This is not a limitation of Legacy as it is capable of 200 speed steps. Legacy has to "downgrade" its communication with TMCC locomotives, resulting in only 32 speed steps. In contrast, I believe DCS has an upper limit of 128 speed steps. I do not, off the top of my head, know how these are translated to the 32 speed steps of TMCC. This means your bottleneck is in the locomotive or DCS translation. You can eliminate the DCS translation by using a Lionel CAB unit. You can address the locomotive by installing something along the lines of a cruise commander that can provide 32 or 100 speed steps to the TMCC locomotive.

@bmoran4 posted:

TMCC locomotives, such as your K-Line (as I suspect), only have 32 speed steps. This is not a limitation of Legacy as it is capable of 200 speed steps. Legacy has to "downgrade" its communication with TMCC locomotives, resulting in only 32 speed steps. In contrast, I believe DCS has an upper limit of 128 speed steps. I do not, off the top of my head, know how these are translated to the 32 speed steps of TMCC. This means your bottleneck is in the locomotive or DCS translation. You can eliminate the DCS translation by using a Lionel CAB unit. You can address the locomotive by installing something along the lines of a cruise commander that can provide 32 or 100 speed steps to the TMCC locomotive.

Would it require both using the Lionel CAB unit AND the cruise commander?

Being that you have the base, I presume you have a CAB controller. If performance is improved with the CAB controller, you know that the DCS translation is interfering. As such, any further improvements to the locomotive may be moot if you are set on the DCS interface. This is where someone like @gunrunnerjohn could hopefully jump in and help us both understand how a Cruise Commander with 100 speed steps would operate under the DCS translation.

I've only tried the CC 100 speed steps a couple of times using the DCS remote, but as I recall, you have to configure it for relative steps.  Once you have the engine configured and selected, press the REL hotkey.

@HudsonORailRoader posted:

I have a K-Line Hudson locomotive being controlled by a Legacy Command Base. I moved to this setup from a ZW transformer expecting to have enhanced control of the locomotive speed. But, the speed control is somewhat better but not what I expected. I'm using  an MTH DCS to control an MTH 2-8-0 and get precise speed control.

Am I expecting too much from the Legacy system? Or, is it the locomotive that's preventing better control?

I welcome any ideas on getting better speed control out of this locomotive. Many thanks in advance for your help.

I think there may be a slight miscommunication happening here.

Maybe I misunderstood this statement, but I think you're talking about using a Legacy system to control the K-Line TMCC Hudson AND also using DCS to control another MTH 2-8-0 Locomotive.  You haven't mentioned using DCS to control the K-Line.

You were expecting more fine adjustment speed control from Legacy and may not have any Legacy Locos for comparison, only the K-Line TMCC.

Is this right so far?

If this is correct, would swapping out the K-Line electronics for something from ERR be a good way to get the finer speed adjustments you seek?

@SteveH posted:

I think there may be a slight miscommunication happening here.

Maybe I misunderstood this statement, but I think you're talking about using a Legacy system to control the K-Line TMCC Hudson AND also using DCS to control another MTH 2-8-0 Locomotive.  You haven't mentioned using DCS to control the K-Line.

You were expecting more fine adjustment speed control from Legacy and may not have any Legacy Locos for comparison, only the K-Line TMCC.

Is this right so far?

If this is correct, would swapping out the K-Line electronics for something from ERR be a good way to get the finer speed adjustments you seek?

Yes, this is correct. I am not mixing the Legacy system with DCS.

@HudsonORailRoader posted:

I am not mixing the Legacy system with DSC.

My bad - you had mentioned using DCS. Then all the discussion about DCS translation is not applicable. Starting over:

Plain and simple, the ERR Cruise Commander product line will take your existing speed steps up to 100 and provide a Speed Management System that will greatly improve the performance.

@HudsonORailRoader ERR prices go up significantly tomorrow.  It may be helpful to know the model# of your K-Line Hudson to know which ERR Cruise Commander you'd need.

https://ogrforum.com/...ncrease-nov-1-monday

http://www.3rdrail.com/err-3rdrail/index.html

The K-Line model number is K3270-5343S. How do link this number to the correct ERR?

A quick google search brought up this OGR topic indicating the Cruise Commander M: https://ogrforum.com/...to-k-line-j1e-hudson

Here's a link to the ordering site:

http://www.3rdrail.com/err-3rdrail/index.html

Found that sometimes K-Line and Atlas  engines run better in R100 mode rather than TMCC or Legacy mode. R100 is listed in engine settings on the Cab 2 right next to TMCC and Legacy settings. Might run a little better in R100.

Thank  you all for your insights. An ERR has been ordered. Looking forward to having this handsome locomotive run better.

Glad to hear that! Keep us posted, and if so inclined, document the install process for the benefit of others.

@bmoran4 posted:

Glad to hear that! Keep us posted, and if so inclined, document the install process for the benefit of others.

Will do. Thanks.

@Gweedo posted:

Found that sometimes K-Line and Atlas  engines run better in R100 mode rather than TMCC or Legacy mode. R100 is listed in engine settings on the Cab 2 right next to TMCC and Legacy settings. Might run a little better in R100.

Have you tried what he mentions and select R100?  IIRC from guest locos here, the K-Line board has 100 speed steps vs the Lionel 32.

Anyway, regarding K-line- that model debuted in 2003 which is right when they started using cruise control- do you know if your loco has cruise? If you have the box it will say it on the side. According to legacykline website it doesn't have cruise, but you can't rely on the legacy k-line website as it does not cover all variations of all models(i.e. engine ABC had tmcc from 2001-2006, had cruise from 2004-2006, road number XX was 2004-2006). If it doesn't have cruise, you need to do the ERR upgrade to expect better speed control. If it does have cruise.....

K-line's cruise control offers 32 steps, 128 steps and 256 steps. When I used my cab1 or DCS handheld, I ran my diesel with cruise in 128 step mode. It afforded more control with the "loose" wheel of the cab 1 and felt somewhat similar to my MTH proto 2/3s...

When using legacy to run an engine with K-line cruise control, to start I did 128 steps in the R100 mode. Eventually, I changed to 32 speed steps in Legacy's TMCC mode- especially when I run mainly TMCC engines. It's nice to not have to be cognizant of whether your controlling and odyssey 2 or odyssey 1 loco especially when they're on the same loop.

UPDATE: Cruise Commander M installed in K-Line Hudson. As the title says, the CCM is installed. Pretty easy project once you know what to do. Only two connectors and one soldered wire. The results are great. The Hudson maintains speed very well around corners, straights, across switches etc. And, maintains the pace at very slow, creeping speeds as well. I recommend this upgrade.

The installation instructions could use some improving. Had to read it several times (yeah, like a lot) to understand what was really necessary. I studied the photos and read related posts on OGR. That being said, electronics is not my area of expertise and is my shortfall in this hobby. But, I still got it installed and operating on the first attempt. You can too.

I understand there is a smoke and chuffing upgrade as well. Might have to try that next.

Thanks to all of you who provided your expert input. I appreciate it very much.

Please let me know if I can answer any questions or provide further detail.

Ralph

@HudsonORailRoader posted:

I understand there is a smoke and chuffing upgrade as well. Might have to try that next.

The Super-Chuffer II will give you true chuffing smoke, smoke at idle (stopped), and optionally if you choose to wire them, a Rule-17 LED headlight and automatic cab light control.  The Chuff-Generator will give you programmable chuff rates, so you can have prototypical 4-chuffs/rev of the drivers.  It also had an optional output for ground lights that automatically go off at about ten scale MPH and on when stopped or at very low speeds.

Here's the Super-Chuffer in action.