Kadee 805's on MTH Premier Passenger Cars (SOLVED)

 MTH usually supplies the necessary shims to get the Kadee’s to the correct height. They   are usually tucked away in the cars box. They do come in different thicknesses as I found out. 

Dave_C posted:

 MTH usually supplies the necessary shims to get the Kadee’s to the correct height. They   are usually tucked away in the cars box. They do come in different thicknesses as I found out. 

Just went through every box.  No shims.  Even went through my new Strasburg box.  No shims there either.

But my question is, why am I needing them.  These are sets.  Shouldn't the all be the same height?

Ron

Next problem.  The diaphragms are now too tight.  Do people remove them? Modify them?

Ron

Hey Ron:

I just got done installing Kadees' on four of the 18 inch MTH cars and I agree with one point you made, how can the cars NOT be the same in terms of needing the same spacer. I found this out the hard way as I based all my shims/spacers off of the first car. After I had made all the shims and started to install them on the other cars, did I find that each car was close, but not the same. Not even end to end on the same car. So I would recommend doing one car at a time... even if it is the "same" car. None of these cars had shims included, not really a problem, because I probably would not have used them and its easy to make your own.

Next problem, I had the same problem with the stiff diaphragms and gave the owner each option. Either keep the 805's and trim the rubber diaphragms back or install the Kadee 746, long shank coupler.

We went with the 746 shank coupler and the cars are good down to 054 curves. Also, since the boxes are already installed, you can just drop in the 746 coupler without changing the box.

Lastly, yes, you will need to cut/remove the tongue from the truck if you are planning (as shown in the pictures) to body mount the Kadees. If you wanted to truck mount the couplers, you can keep the tongue. Again, not really a big deal. If you really needed to go back, the trucks can be purchased.

Hope that helps.

Charlie

Charlie, 

Thanks so much.  Just learning more about the 746 Longs online.  Sure wish the guy at the hobby shop told me about those.  When I told him what I was doing, he recommended the 805's.

Can just the long shanks be purchased by themselves so I can drop them into my same boxes or do I need to buy the entire 746 Long shank set?  In my prelim search, I have not found just the shanks for sale.

Thanks!

Ron

 I don’t have a lot of MTH. They provided shims to the ones I did and they were on the money. Height wise with Kadee’s gauge. I did the woodsided cars and they operate fine.  But no diaphragms to deal with. Plus they are on the shorter side. I agree with Charlie on running the longer Kadee shanks if you retain the stock diaphragms. They look like this.

 The different heights seem odd with the same boxed set of cars. The shims are included to bring a 3 rail car to the correct height. With most MTH rolling stock. 2rail trucks are available. When converting to 2 rail I’m assuming the car rides lower and the car will sit at the correct height without the shim.
 You can make your own shims. Scale city makes a variety of 4 thicknesses I believe. If you really want to fine tune the height.

Ron 

The 740 series Kadees are also more prototypical and have no external spring. Here is the 746.

The draft gear box is the same as the 805s so it is easy to swap them out. You can always use the 805s on some freight cars (once the Kadee bug bites, you don't know where it will lead).

What curves are you running these cars on?  You may want to only do 2 cars at first and test them, since body mounted couplers require wider curves.  S curves are even more trouble.

When you are ready to put Kadees on those beautiful F units, read these posts by Mario.  He is one of the pros on fixing pilots and adding Kadees to diesel locomotives.  I did my ABBA set of pennsy sharks and the close coupling looks great.

Bob

Thanks Bob, 

I'm going to Allentown, next Saturday, so maybe I can get some there.   I got a steal on those F units.  They came with fixed pilots but with 3 rail trucks and hi rail wheels.  I did put Kadees on them from the start and I installed one kadee on the lead baggage car.  I left all of the others with the lobster claws.  But now I want to change them out.

Maybe I'll bump into you in Allentown.

Have Fun!

Ron

I want to thank everyone for their help and assistance.  I went to the Allentown train show this weekend and purchased the Kadee 746 couplers.  They work great and give me the separation I needed to operate successfully.

I did have two challenges.  For some reason I had a more difficult time putting the center spring in on the 746's vice the 805's.  Not sure why.  Because these boxes were plastic, I did not do the center punch method to secure the top.  The first assembly the top seemed to snap into place.  All of the others I did, the top would not stay secure, so I had to be careful when installing.  Other than that, they look good.

Have Fun!

Ron

MTH doesn't supply those spacers always. The same kind of cars can have different spacer requirements too. Lionel cars I have done can be different from one end to the other... the 57' mechanical reefers are different on each end.

There is no one size fits all, not even the same kind of car or the same manufacturer 

Looks great, Ron

Bob