kadees on Lionel Passenger Cars?

For what it's worth, I have body mounted Kadee #805 couplers on MTH 18"/19" passenger cars and they work very well on 072 or larger curves. Although I can not tell from your photo exactly how the lobster claw is mounted to the truck assembly, in the past I have found Lionel freight trucks VERY difficult to eliminate the claw without a Dremel cut-off disc. But then, I have never been concerned with what I destroy in order to up-grade to Kadee couplers.

The long arm is attached to the truck by a rivet centered under the mounting stud. It appears the truck has to be disassembled to allow access to the rivet. A plate underneath holding the pick up roller prevents direct access. I am hoping for tips to best access the rivet before I dive in.

Pete

After looking at mine, its either cut or drill. The drilling would require taking them apart just to get to the rivet in order to drill it out. Do you have curves that are smaller than 072? If not, the easiest way is to body mount the Kadees, and modify the box and shank to allow maximum swing. 

I run my 85-ft GGD cars on O-72.

I mount the K-D couplers on swing arms as per John Armstrong and others. I use 5x2/16-in K&S rectangular tubing to insert the K-D shank; it's a loose fit so a thin shim is needed, about 5mils or so. Secure with a drop of ACC. The length of the swing arm and corresponding pivot hole will be determined depending on how close you want car diaphragms to be on your smallest curve-on mine there is a little less than 1/16-in separation. I need this because there are a couple transitions on the AGHR layout where having the diaphragms touch will result in diaphragm edges locking and yanking the cars off the rails.

My setup doesn't provide for coupler self-centering, something I don't need for passenger train running. If you want to switch passenger cars you'll need to adapt some swing arm springing. Get Armstrong's layout video (Green Frog productions) to see how he did it.

Unless you're going to preserve the Lionel cars for later resale follow Hot Water's advise and cut off the Lionel coupler arms.

Thanks Rex, Actually what you are describing is what I plan to do only using the existing pivot point. That would allow use of the existing centering spring.

Pete

I mounted the kadees to the existing coupler arms.  Since the arms already swing I froze the Kadees in their pockets to prevent them from also pivoting.  seemed to work fine on 072 curves. Of course I don't couple and uncouple passenger cars very much.

Terry, I assume you just drilled out the rivets in the coupler head? Do the diaphragms touch or is there still some gap? The main reason for my doing this is to close the gap more than having a more prototypical coupler.

Pete

I removed the entire coupler and left only the angled metal arm. I don't recall if I shortened it or not. I don't have diaphragms yet. I mounted the couplers so that the inside ends of the cars nearly touch on an 072 curve.  Since I'm freezing the couplers in their "pockets" I don't need to account for the typical play in kadees.  I'll try to post some pictures in the next week or so.

Terry thanks. I went ahead and disassembled one truck. Unlike the F-3, no locktite was used (what's up with that?) so the screws came out easily. I peened over the mounting rivet and punched it out (no cutoff wheel needed ) then drilled out the two rivets holding the coupler to the arm.

Using a medium shank, center mount Kadee I screwed it right to the truck and adjusted the height with nuts and washers. I may try a short shank coupler to get even closer coupling. I was also able to modify a coupler box to fit in the arm and use a Kadee centering spring if needed. Right now appearance leaves a lot to be desired so I have to decide if I want to modify the stock coupler arm or make my own. With 18 cars to do I'll have to work out a way to mass produce these. In the meantime I have a transition car that will allow me pull the cars with this engine.

The gray plastic is just temporary to hold the coupler in position.

The coupler could move back another 1/32" or so to get the opening centered under the diaphram edge. I could do that by milling the medium length coupler or using short shank models.

Pete

Hi,  Nice work on your conversions.  Have you thought about using dummy scale couplers on your passenger cars.  How often are you going to be switching them?  The dummys couple up to Kadees and look good but are less expensive.  Two dummy couplers have to be coupled by lifting one into the other.

Phil R.

Phil, I have thought about using dummy couplers for the engines but not the cars. The only place I can run these cars are on my clubs modular layout where trains are setup and taken apart frequently so I think Kadees are worth it.

Pete