Kohs trains

Obiviously! how quickly people forget the issues with some of the earlier brass imports Kohs included. As the boys [Nick@Jack] used to say at Custom Brass " what you want it to run too" I knew Mr Bultman well and his efforts to get the best possible product for C@LS ultimately led to bankruptcy. The latest imports have come a long way.

Hazing process has been established --> a tub of soapy frogs and wet suit with the bottom cut out...................................  

Oh. Is that all? I thought bamboo shoots under the fingernails would be involved.

BTW, significant movement on the Kohs challenger project.  It looks very tempting.  Since I only model the modern era stuff, 3985 may fit the bill.

I have a wide range of 2 and 3-rail models. The best runners I have are the Sunset DM&IR Yellowstone, 4-8-2 mountain (modified to Atlantic Coast Line) and the N&W Y6b-all in 2-rail. All of my MTH (3-rail) runs fine, until the traction tires or sound cards fail. The Lionel, new and post war do well, so does the Williams cab-forwards.  I even have some Loco Workshop locos built from kits that run well, primarily because the builder (Richie Okrosy) made a good running mechanism. If you have well laid track (mine needs some work), and decent curves, most of the running problems are alleviated. I very rarely had lemons or shelf queens, but then I don't own any "high end" stuff. I had an Overland Western & Maryland 2-8-0, and a UP Alco Century 855A that almost fell apart when touched. I no longer have these. I have no complaints against the "infamous" China drive since it is durable and works continously. My best advice is when you purchase a loco, check out the builder and the minimum radius of the engine.  If the builder has a good reputation like Sunset, you are well on your way. For older brass and "high end" brass, be careful!  Research as much as you can the history of the particular engine, and check the forums for any comments or reviews.  If people who build engines like Bob Turner or Gary Schrader recommend, or condemn it, this will go a long way.

The contest manager was less than happy?  Have him insist on tags that identify the model.  It is his fault if a Lionel conversion is mistaken for a scratchbuilt masterpiece.

I personally cannot compete with the fine Korean imports.  One year one of my scratchbuilt locomotives placed behind a Sunset AC-4 with a light dusting of weathered black.  It was a superb model, and made it to the cover of OST.  My model wasn't all that bad, and had been hand-crafted from the ground up.

My solution was to simply stay out of the contests that allow factory models without identifying tags.  That is not sour grapes; I have won way more than my fair share of contests, even competing with Korean and Japanese imports.

In my opinion life is getting pretty pathetic when someone enters a basically box stock model in a contest. Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see the point of it. Is it a contest to see who can buy the best model?         

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for better models! That said, I would never enter something I bought in a contest unless it was highly modified, and that doesn't mean weathered! It's bad enough to fool other people, but it's even sadder to fool yourself.

Simon

I suppose it all depends on ones perspective and the objective of a contest.  Is the objective to recognize the best model or to recognize the best individual effort?

The recent Lionel PS series freight cars have received wide recognition as very good models.  And that shouldn't be too surprising, many people lent their skills to make those models come into being.  It started decades ago when Pullman-Standard sent plans to the Lionel corporation.  Those original drawings were used to by skilled toolmakers to create the Lionel cars being made today.  Using a precision injection molded body, cast or jig formed brass detail parts and precise paint masks and equipment really should produce better models than any of us could scratch build individually.  There are too many opportunities for us to make little mistakes fabricating a car from hand made parts.  As in so many other areas, a team tends to produce higher quality and more cost effective results than a single individual.

The same holds true for brass cars built with minimal tooling in a small shop.  Brass models require less tooling than injection molding or die casting so brass construction makes economic sense for models with limited sales potential.  But the minimal tooling opens up the chances for imperfections in parts and their assembly.  That is why it is so common to have to rebuild a brass model to get good operation.  And that is also why it is  much less common to need to rebuild models built with higher production methods, more money went into their engineering and production tooling because it made economic sense to do it. 

We have great models of common car types and even railroad specific cars from Atlas, Lionel, MTH and Weaver.  If we have a need for unusual prototypes or a level of detail otherwise unavailable we have scratch building and brass as options.  Some of us simply enjoy model building itself or tinkering with problematic rolling stock as a part of our hobby.  I'm glad we have so many nicely detailed and reliable rolling stock choices so I can focus my time on other areas of model railroading.

Not too many years ago John Armstrong said that today a lifetime O scale layout isn't one that a man spends a lifetime building but one that he builds and enjoys for a lifetime.  I am glad that O scale has progressed to the point where that is possible for so many of us. 

I did not mean that factory models should be excluded.  What I meant was, in a popular vote contest it is not really fair for factory models and scratchbuilt models to be in competition.  There are two ways to make it fair: one way is to require tags identifying what work the owner did and what the basic model is, and the other way is the way the NMRA does it - assign points based on what the owner did to the model.

Oh, geez - i forgot to add - opinion.

This one won both a popular vote contest and a national NMRA contest.  Pretty good model, but cannot hold a candle to a well done production import.

Maybe so, but there are some that contend that the journey is more important than the destination.

Simon

I'm all for better models that I need. Believe me, I'd like to see them brought on in any material and I'll judge the model. I've never heard anyone say their brass rivals the best in plastic or diecast, though, I often hear it said the other way around.

That any item won in a contest really isn't a barometer of anything. I've seen some contests where the winner was in a one horse race, and I've seen some where the other models just stunk, or that one model was just more popular. This is not to say that the winning model does not have merit, it may or may not.

A local story tells of a famous judge who awarded a third place honor in a model train contest while NOT awarding a second or even first place honor. Now there was a judge who had standards in judging models.

Okay, i'll say it: that brass IHB 0-8-0 that Max Gray did came fairly close to the level of detail and crispness of the eleven dollar Rivarossi version, but did not equal it.  That said, I would rather have the Max Gray version any time.  Don't hit me with the difference in the drive train - that could be fixed.

Opinion.

Given that the NMRA judged contests requires that the entered model must be 90% built by the entrant, that pretty much eliminates commercially assembled models.

And, as a judge and NMRA contest chair, I've many steam engines that rival or considerably exceed anything imported - not common, but there are still folks out there building steam engines.

No—I won't hit you with anything to do with the drive, but Max Gray doesn't represent the best in brass today.

I had to laugh at your comment - "significant movement"

I realize that importing brass models is a crap shoot and movement on a project can seem like watching the glacial ice advance.

One importer announces a future project and it seems like every other importer jumps in with a "hey me too - look  I'm gonna bring that in" announcement. Or at least that's the way it was while we had a bunch of importers.

And then there is an importer that announces an O scale  project for delivery for the Summer of 2001, err make that Fall 2003 ahh how about Spring 2006, maybe Summer 2010 - Winter 2013?? ... and so it goes cause nobody wants the darn thing!

Look my hat is off to anyone with the passion, knowledge and ability to bring in a good project, but if I want drama and intrigue, I'll watch Game of Thrones. 

I bought a model from an imported that from the time of announcement - my reservation to my holding said model in my hands was 3.74 years.  Life is too darn short so I decided to scrap everything and build a P48 switching layout and enjoy the work of super-detailing. 

It's a good thing my bowels don't have the  "significant movement" like the importing business.  I apologize in advance for the ravings of a lunatic madman!

Larry

What does "significant movement" mean anyway? 

Perhaps the key to sucessful importing of brass models is linked to the consumption of Metamucil?

I would say Kohs needs a double dose of ExLax.  Ed

Sone of us worry about passing on before the model is produced. Four years is too long considering money was put up on a substantial deposit. Most of us know what the problem is. Lack of money. You got the money you can get the model in a reasonable time if it is brass. Ed

Lionel....H2/H43 three pocket open hoppers

H2 as in N&W? Really? Where?

Yeesh, Mike, I just wanted to know what "significant movement" means....just what have you heard or seen that indicates signs of life?

BTW, all my preorders from SMR came in with only small delays.  I'm only waiting for their next item that I can use to be announced from SMR.

Fact!

Why is it every time anyone asks for anything resembling factual information, they get kicked in the @ss?

More opinion!

I just had a significant movement! 

I do give the importers a break, but they are dropping like flies drop around Snooki.

Just how many O Scale 2 rail importers are there today that have actually delivered something in the last year and a half?

Kohs

Key

Sunset

SMR

Am I missing anybody?

Yoder?

I believe Key Models has been reasonably consistent in the delivery of there products .Kohs has some issues with there Challenger project and for the dollar amount being depositited or that will be ultimitely paid for this model it is understandable why buyers would be concerned.

Thanks; been there and was hoping your statement referred to something more substantial and independent of that...

Glacier Park maybe????

Simon

Just curious, why are we showing Kohs as one of the importers that's brought something in over the last 1 1/2 yrs?  What has George brought in?

Jay

Lionel....H2/H43 three pocket open hoppers

 

H2 as in N&W? Really? Where?

 

Typo... H11a's are the basis for the PRR H43.

Yea, I forgot Glacier Park Models and Mr Yoder.  My apologies to both.

I was speaking of Brass models that is why Atlas and MTH was not on my list.

Larry

Lots of very interesting discussion here, I am enjoying reading all of it. 

Indeed, it almost rivals the entertainment value obtained from reading back issues of Harper's Weekly.

Too funny. I've heard the "big three" provided almost everything we need. They make a few steam engines and leave people hanging there. They skipped 8 or 9 N&W hopper classes and variations that are actually from the steam era.

The "big three" only scratch the surface on models for what is needed for railroads outside of several of the most popular. It isn't as bad as Communism, but if the "big three" had their way, we'd all be Pennsy modelers.

 Now, now, now,  some us would be allowed to be New York Central Modelers.  And just think of all the griping about colors being so far off you'd think black was white you'd miss if that were true.

mwb said:

Indeed, it almost rivals the entertainment value obtained from reading back issues of Harper's Weekly.

You have some truly offbeat interests, son

Christopher N&W said:

The "big three" only scratch the surface on models for what is needed for railroads outside of several of the most popular. It isn't as bad as Communism, but if the "big three" had their way, we'd all be Pennsy modelers.

There's another railroad to model?