Korean built Lionel engines

Most of my Korean Built Lionel scale steam locos have held up well.I have all the JLC steam and they are all 100% so far. I can only think of one that had some material issues,a NP 4-4-2 I recall that had cracking/spalling drivers. Sold it off years ago.

I'm pretty sure they stopped producing in the U.S. around 2000.  And I *think* the stuff started coming out of China right about the same time that Legacy was launched (circa 2007.)  So the Korean production, which was mostly high-end items, would have been 2001 to 2007-ish.

Hopefully someone that actually knows will improve my estimate!

first and easiest clue will be the box....it’ll say where the piece was made....seems to a lot of us that the scale stuff from both Lionel and MTH Premier made in Korea have a better level of quality than the same level of stuff coming out of China....now, that’s my opinion personally, but it’s shared by others I’m sure.....if you’re referring to the latest threads where we’ve been discussing the J3a’s that came out of Korea, I can tell you from fact that these are well built, and more importantly, well crafted machines.....tight tolerances, good materials, excellent craftsmanship.......I can’t speak for rolling stock or the lessor lines like Lionchief, but the Korean locomotives from right around 2002 until they stopped producing them there, ( I can’t exactly recall) are some of the finest runners I’ve ever owned.....and I continue to seek them out....I think MTH Premier was built or is still being built in Korea,....I could be wrong, and I’ll let somebody else rectify that answer...some Korean built locos did exhibit issues, but definitely not like what we’re seeing today......

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I think MTH Premier was built or is still being built in Korea,....I could be wrong, and I’ll let somebody else rectify that answer...some Korean built locos did exhibit issues, but definitely not like what we’re seeing today......

 

All Premier locomotives were built in South Korea until around 1999-2000. After that Premier diesel production moved to China (along with all Railking production). Premier steam has always been built in South Korea.  

 For sure. Lionel locos made 2005 and earlier( late 90's?) are Korean made.

I'm not 100% sure about 2006, but by 2007 everything was made in china. I suppose its possible that the end of TMCC control was the end of the Korean build.

Possibly all of the Legacy locos are made in China.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

So it appears that any engines from maybe late 2006 to the present are manufactured in China????

If anyone else can offer any additional information on KOREAN built engines that would be great. 

Thank you.

@Oneonta posted:

So it appears that any engines from maybe late 2006 to the present are manufactured in China????

If anyone else can offer any additional information on KOREAN built engines that would be great. 

Thank you.

What else would you like to know?

Pat

The latest EM1 was made in Korea

Looks like in 2020 manufacturing went back to Korea.

I guess we'll see if the build quality improves. 

@harmonyards posted:

What else would you like to know?

Pat

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the information.

What I hope to do is to compile a list of engines manufactured in Korea for Lionel.

1) Are any diesels manufactured in Korea, or just steam?

2) Seems like there is an interest in the Korean pieces and I have heard that a few newer pieces, like the newest EM-1's, are coming out of Korea which I find encouraging. Recently I thought I saw a review on Eric's Trains on a Korean manufactured engine as well.

If the Korean pieces tend to exhibit more favorable levels of quality then this can serve as an assist to those in the market. For what these pieces cost any edge is a plus.

There are many facets to quality.  I'm not 100% convinced that "Made in Korea" Lionels were better.  Just a few of the examples that burned me through the years: Odyssey "lurch," exploding Odyssey flywheel magnets, nylon gears in the Niagara, EM-1 driveshafts, Hudson wheels held to their axles by tiny screws that strip out easily.  Wheels on the loco that didn't match the pre-production catalog image.  A veranda turbine with bent subframes.  "Scale" diesels that rode much higher than a postwar 2023 or 2343.  TMCC circuitry that worked poorly in conventional mode; sound and command board configurations that were failure-prone and difficult to troubleshoot (and would probably necessitate an ERR upgrade to perform as well as the best of today.)

I'm not necessarily a fan of China or toys that are made there.  And I agree that the quality of some recent pieces, especially those made in 2017-18 (such as the Moguls, F40PH, etc.) was very questionable.  Not to mention inaccurate paint colors!  But- there were many engineering improvements that came with the introduction of Legacy and shortly after. 

During the 2001-2007 time frame, in my opinion MTH (the original "Made in Korea") ruled the roost.  When Mike lost the lawsuit about the N&W Class A, etc., I recall him being quoted as saying something like "now that this has happened, within 7 years Lionel will catch up."  If he really said that,  he was almost exactly right!  After 2007, Lionel's engineering improvements, i.e., back-drivable gears, Legacy, the CAB-2, dedicated controls for a quillable whistle, etc., offered more to the operator than MTH.  Beginning with the FEF, Milwaukee S3, etc., Lionel hit one home run after another.  MTH retreated to HO steam (which ironically incorporated the improvements I had been requesting for years!), and European trains.  Lionel got the majority of my train dollars for the next 7 years.

Like some of you I spent a LOT of money on trains during this time period.  My experiences were real.  My interpretation of the facts is subjective, but being heavliy into the hobby during this era, that's how I perceived it.

I just received my first Korean Legacy engine - EM-1 2031090  ( I have 14 other Lionel Lionchief and VL and Legacy engines); I noticed immediately the difference in precision, quality, fit, finish, consistency; see my thread https://ogrforum.com/...-em-1-only-one-issue

I will now tend toward Korean built Legacy if I can get it.  I think Korean built has also evolved along the way.

Last year, I briefly owned this Made In Korea engine with a misspelled tender:

I am guessing we will see more Made in Korea, hope so since the prices seem to be substantially higher this year than last on some items.  I am hoping the jump in pricing is due to the move otherwise I cannot see spending over $70 for a single Lionel freight car that I would need to spend another $20 to convert to 2 rail.  

My only issue with the past Korean sourced locos was the paint blistering around the boiler and wheels. Even would chip off the wheels.  Check out the painted diecast frame of the 1990 Pennsy Burro Crane...frame made in Korean and the paint blistered off.  I assume they have corrected their diecast zamak curing techniques.  Zinc pest is another issue like with the JLC GG1 trucks.   My METCA Lionel Chief+ Conrail Bicentennial GG1 arrived yesterday and I was surprised to see Made in Korea.  Its a stunning engine.

I would have thought that the Korean-built product GENERALLY might be better than the Chinese.  Reasons in my mind might be- the Koreans for many years have built high-standard brass locomotives in many different scales.  As well, in guitars- I have found that the Koreans and Japanese do better than the Chinese.

In my own experience, I have only ONE engine (a K-Line) that was made in Korea.  The rest post 1990:  TMCC, LC+, one LC Plus 2.0, and three or so Legacies, all of my post-TMCC engines were made in China.

I have a total of 6 Legacy engines- (F7 A/A set + SuperBass unit, two GP9s, one K4), and 1 has had to go back to warranty service.

LC Plus- of the six I have, only the latest Polar Express LC+2.0 had to be sent in for a bent wheel on the tender, probably dropped in the production process.  One would have had to run it to see that there was a problem, and they don't test run every one.  As well my LHS does not have the ability to test.  (IF I were a LHS- I would not test either- "leaning into a left hook"- and making me in the hobby shop hold the bag for Lionel's subcontractors' execution of quality standards.)

LC+ engines have fewer features, have higher production numbers in units, and seem to be better, in one man's experience.

Does less in the way of features, OR is more in terms of production numbers make quality easier to control?