Layout Building Question: Tips needed!

There's always Mianne Benchwork.

 

http://www.miannebenchwork.com/benchwork_kits.htm

Mianne and Sievers make pre done tables, and they are a bit more 'professional' that what many of us can do (raising hand high)...

One way to make it look better is to have a valence, which basically is attached to the outside of the layout, that tends to make it look more finished rather than a piece of plywood on a table. Some people go all out and have drawers beneath the table, plus they will do things like use tongue in groove paneling to cover the bottom of the layout (with doors to allow access underneath). Other have a small valence, then having curtains or drapes to cover the bottom. Some people make a valence that goes down just enough to cover the wiring, if the legs are finished and not just 2x4's. you may not have to go all the way to the floor. The curtain valence is probably the easier and cheaper way to go IMO, be interesting to see what others think.

Hi PennsyPride94,

You can do something quickly and not too expensive using folding tables. I think the Depot store carries these.

Check out this member's layout for some ideas. When it's up, maybe you can get the boss (mom) involved to get you some skirts for the sides.

Layout Update by Flash

 

I really like this idea...

 

Fast, easy and fairly inexpensive... 

 

I wish Iwould have thought of this, sturdy and you have built in storage...

 

You could always hang skirting around it to give it a finished look...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01xt0Tgj3cQ

 

How handy are you? Do you have access to a power saw and drill? You can use 1x4s at 24 inch intervals.  Mine is all on 1x4s with 3/8 ply,  1/2 is better but I needed light weight for other reasons. 

Home depot and Lowes sell a clear pine in 4, 6 and 8 foot lengths that look nice and can be stained.  Also in the same section they have decorative table legs you can use or you can go to Joannes, Walmart or Michaels and get enough fabric to attach a skirting around the bottom.

The suggestions on Mianne is great if you can get help paying for it.

I put 1x3s 12 inches on center, then attached them on the ends to a 1x4 and use 1x4 legs every other 1x3.  It made it very easy to move for a 6x12 layout when I had to put it on a Uhaul truck in November.  

If really is about covering up below the table to make your parents happy.

Thumbs up to you mom and dad for encouraging you with your hobby.

 

-Ted

P.S.  I did have to add quite a bit of cross bracing on the legs after this picture, but as you can see the outer 1x4 white rails are screwed into the ends of the 1x3s,  with it raised taller than the 1x3 and the plywood the lip serves well to keep the scenery on the table and not on the floor. 

Joe, bigkid, moonman, Steve and Ted thanks for the tips. 

 

I have never worked with carpentry before but it would definitely be something to learn (just the basics of it).

 

I like the idea of the fold up tables and the plastic shelving with plywood build on top. The plastic shelving is probably the cheapest and most efficient way to make a layout. I also like the idea of having the shelving under the layout to store the trains. 

 

Mianne Benchwork looks fantastic but the problem is the shipping (I live in PA) I understand the cost just for the benchwork but the shipping plus buying the plywood base I'm still thinking the plastic shelving with plywood on top is the better route. 

 

Again, nothing is for sure right now I just want ideas. 

 

Also, what about painting the benchwork a nice base color instead of staining? I know a buddy of mine who painted his white and it looks very nice especially with the drapery. 

Hi Mike, Mine has the white trim around the top. Looks good that way too. -Ted

Hey Pennsy, when I was a kid my dad had the local lumber company make a table for me.  It was only 4' x 8' with a homasote top and they even made the 2"x 2"legs for it.  They drilled the leg holes and supplied the nuts and bolts.  If you have a local lumber company handy (and I don't mean Home Depot or Lowes but they may be willing to do it) check with them.  If I remember right they even delivered it.

 

Rick

Mike,

 

Most inexpensive : 2x4's with plywood on top, with skirts to cover the legs.  2x4's are about $3 each, and I just got some skirting online for my modular layout for under $25 for a 17.5' length.  Hides the legs AND all the stuff you store under there!  No need for an edge trim, just velcro the skirting right to the plywood top edge. To use stock skirting, the tabletop should be 30".  Otherwise, it's got to be custom made = $$$$.  Plenty of stock colors. Skirt lengths of 13.5, 17.5 and 21.5' are standard.  The skirts come with velcro attached, just add a stick on strip of velcro to the top edge.

 

Also not too expensive:  folding tables, with a 1x4 frame and thin plywood on top. Then add skirts as listed above.  I did this for my modular layout, and it looks great!

 

Ed

 

 

Mike, bench work really has nothing to do with what the finished product looks like. It's going to look like a construction zone for a little while, no matter how you build your bench work. It's how you finish it. The fascia board, skirt, backdrops, lighting, and surrounding area. Trust me, the layout that my dad and I are building is in their formal living room and formal dining room, just as you walk in the front door to their house. Needless to say, it has to look presentable and not like a wood shop.

 

Most of the cutting was done outside and carried in for assembly. Some stuff did have to be cut inside, just wasn't any way around it. It did look like a construction zone for awhile, but not so much any more. Have your parents watch some of the videos I posted on YouTube. If it can be done in the formal living room/dining room, it can be done in a finished basement just as well.

   

The video in my signature below shows more progress than the pictures, but even that's a couple months old now. It's all about the presentation, they just have to understand it takes awhile to get there. We spent a lot of time getting the front of the layout to look less like a construction site, for my Mom's sake. The skirt hides all the clutter too, so when you're done for the day, just shove everything behind the skirt til the next day  

Thanks for the tips guys. 

 

I talked to my mom since she's pretty much the boss in regard to stuff in the house (and should be) and she said that the ideas with the fold up tables and the plastic shelving holding up a sheet of plywood are good ideas. Unfortunately she does not understand that building something I want is a process and does not look too nice until its completed. She wants a "nice table" and I don't want one since the table will get beat up. I'm not being disobedient but just realistic. 

 

Being almost 19 years old I need something portable so that when the day comes to move out I can bring it along. Trust me I would love to have something that is all plywood and almost permanent but I want something that I can disassemble fairly easily when needed. 

 

Another question for you all. If I go in the route of either the plywood on top of folding tables or plywood on top of plastic shelving do you think I should center my track plan around a module scheme? What I mean is should I have my track set up so that I can separate pieces of the table and the track can stay there because it can be reconnected later?

You can make it completely modular if you want. Make 2'x8' modules and go around the room, or whatever size modules you need to accommodate the space.

One idea that worked well with a neighbor who wanted a simple table for a layout, he found a ping pong table on Craig's List and the table (which folded) was only $50.  Just an idea.

 

TEX

Steve

Yes, you should design it in a modular fashion. Once you decide on the track you are using, the size of the modules will be determine by the manufacturer's standard sizes of tracks.

 

I would second TexSpecial's suggestion of the used folding ping pong tables. The 5' x 9' size is great for O gauge. Lionel even recommended this in the 50's. Not as convenient as smaller modules (tables), but they are a lot of real estate for $50. 2 of them in a L-shape gives you a 5'w x 14'L x 9'L. ) Any curves under 060 will work.

 

With a little searching and a friend with a truck you have a platform.

The Lionel FasTrak modules are great if you have the $$$$$$$$$. For my 5x8, I used $36. worth of Luan board, some 1"x2" poplar boards, and 4 plastic saw-horses from Home Depot.

the ping pong table is a great idea, especially if you can get a used one.  Another idea is to use old doors, the ones that are flat sided.  The hollow core doors are light weight and you can connect them together with angle braces and latches as you expand the layout over time.  If the city you live in has a custom door store, they may have used doors that can be had for just a few dollars.   The doors can be placed on inexpensive bookshelves or saw-horses (Harbor freight sells very cheap ones).  You might be able to find the book sheves at a thrift store top place the doors on.  I have used old kitchen cabinets to put my layout on.  Again, if you have a company in your area that does home remodels,  you can give them a call to see if they are doing a project that has some old cabinets which are headed to the dump. Clean them up and paint them (using a color that your mom likes), and you have a very sturdy base for a train layout and storage areas with shelves and drawers.  Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

My Christmas Layout is on a pair of 6' folding plastic top tables this year.

Pictures are Here in a Christmas Layout thread. Mine is almost halfway down the second page. And in those pictures it's not finished. Many more trees and people and a few more buildings have been added.

Note, Hiding the legs was easy: Walmart has a bag of batting for making quilts. It's under $20, and covers both tables with a couple feet of overhang on the sides. Instant Winter scene.

 

Good Luck with the Property Marshall 

My only advice is go for 2 rails!

no regrets at all.

AG.

Love the ideas everyone! 

 

The  ping pong table seems like a great idea as does again the folding plastic top tables. 

 

I will definitely think about the ping pong table idea because that is a very logical option. 

 

In regards to the folding tables, how thick should the plywood be that you cover the table in? It would seem you would have to be careful to get a thickness that is enough to hold track but not too thick that you are paying too much for it. 

I used hollow core doors on 2x4 stringers, on end, which fit into Stanley Fat Max saw horses and then screwed down from the top.

 

The ends of the saw horses also have holes in which you can screw the 2x4s in, once level...

 

I'll see if I can get some pics tonight!

 

 

Sounds good I look forward to seeing the photos once you are able to get a hold of some! Thanks! 

If you cover the benchwork with some kind of skirting, what's underneath won't matter as long as the skirting look is okay with mom.

 

One thing you haven't mentioned is type of layout and size. Both those things will influence what benchwork you can use safely. A standard folding tables measures about 30"x72"x29". That means you can probably safely put a 4x8 sheet of plywood on it. However, if you use 1/2" plywood, the overhang might suggest adding a 1x3 or 1/4 support grid to minimize warping. You can probably use 3/4" plywood without needing a support grid. Since 30" is not very high, a support grid would also help raise the layout to a more comfortable height. If your space is larger, then you need to see how many folding tables will fit the space and in what configuration. A folding table runs around $70 at Home Depot.

 

If you try to use plastic shelving units, 2 shelves generally run about 35"-40" high. The unit I saw at Home Depot also runs about $70, but there was a cheaper unit for $50 and you'd have to decided which would be stronger/better. I actually like this idea, not necessarily for the storage though, but because you can screw the top to the shelves and still be able to drill holes for wiring, etc. I suppose you can do that with a folding table too, but then you ruin the table for other uses.

 

You can get a pair for 28" sawhorses for $35, shorter for less and taller for more. You can buy cheap brackets for $7 and some 2x4's to make your own to a custom height. 2x4's run about $3, and it will take one for each side, so it's about $13 per sawhorse. You can attach the top to the sawhorse too and have complete access to the bottom. How many you buy/make will depend on how strong you want things to be. Here again, you need to consider how much overhang with or without a support grid will work.

 

Since you mention getting up off the floor, I'll assume your track is something like FasTrack with an attached plastic roadbed. If so, you need to consider how that track separates when you want to take the layout apart. The easiest way to probably to just cut across the seams and wire things so trains don't stop when they hit the small gaps. Or you can do like the modular folks do and plan things so a piece can be simply be removed at the seams and replaced when the layout is reassembled.

 

The other thing is that since your layout will be in the basement, you need to make sure your "modules" are small enough to get in/out of the basement. You might not be able to get a 4x8 sheet down there without cutting it in half. You might not be able to get a 5x9 Ping-Pong table down there either. If you have to divide a 4x8 sheet of plywood, then you'd definitely need some kind of support system underneath. I built my temporary table in 3x5 and 3x3 modules that fit together to make a 6x8 table.

 

I think you've gotten some great ideas, but I think you need to do some layout planning before you decide on which system to use.

Great tips Dave, thanks for the information. It definitely got me thinking a lot about the choices I make and their impact. 

 

The track I have now is essentially a carpet layout and nothing more at that so taking apart the layout will be as easy as assembling it. 

 

Right now it seems like the plastic shelving is the best way to go. It just seems more logical and uses the space better. Plus in my opinion I can make the layout look nicer without the wooden legs and the layout would also be easier to take down. 

 

Right now at the moment the layout size is between an 8x8 or a 6x8. The 8x8 will be just two 4x8s put together and the 6x8 would be one 4x8 and a 2x8 most likely. I still have to go to either lowes or home depot just to see what sizes of plywood they have so I can get an idea as to what I need to order. (Remember this is depending on if the parents are okay with this still! ) 

 

Lastly, I have a door that leads directly from the garage into the basement and into the train room just a few feet from that so getting the supplies down there would be a breeze. 

 

If you have a door from the garage to the basement make your life simple and find a used ping pong table on craigslist. Many are free fold nice and have wheels.

Paint it in the garage and roll it in.

 

Where in Pa are you?

Mike

 

How big a layout are you planning.  Size could have an impact on how you build it.

 

Al

Be careful trying an 8x8 because 36" is about as far as most of us can safely reach to deal with derailments and other problems. If you try an 8x8, make sure you don't locate any switches, etc., out of reach. If you can fit two 4x8's and separate them with a 2'-3' section on one side to make a 8x10 horseshoe and still have room all around, you'd have access to all sides and room for a nice sized loop-to-loop layout. There have been several layouts posted for 5x9 and 6x10 spaces that could be adapted for your space. Take a look at these threads for some ideas:

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...95#22829637017132295

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...92#23392856511171592

 

Depending on the room, you could even do something with only one level of the shelving unit to make it more like a large coffee table vs a 30" or higher table. I saw just such a layout yesterday looking through the Flickr link TMack posted.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...et-72157626165227562

 

Good point Dave I honestly did not think about that when mentioning an 8x8. 

 

I can do what I want in a 6x8 if I have to. I'm trying to keep the amount of cutting of the wood down to a minimum so that I can have less of a mess and get it up quickly. 

 

I really like the pictures posted by Ted. I am leaning towards something that is more like a coffee table. I really don't need to have something 40 inches off the ground so that I can stand and watch the train go by. Sitting on a small chair by the coffee table setup would do just fine. 

 

In the 5x9 and 6x10 setups I didn't read carefully I just skimmed and didn't see anywhere where they mentioned how the pieces of plywood were setup to make the 5x9 and 6x10 table? Two pieces? One giant one? Multiple smaller pieces of plywood? 

 

How economical is it to do something like a 5x9 or a 6x10?

From a purely economical point of view with regard to the cost of wood and the style of benchwork you are considering, a 5x9 would end up with a lot of wood left over. You'd have to buy two 4x8's and then cut 1x8 and 1x5 sections to expand one sheet to 5x9.

 

With a 6x10, you'd need to add 2x8 and 2x6 sections, so you'd only have a 2x2 section left over. If you can work with a 6x10, a 5x9 doesn't make any sense unless you go with the ping-pong table.

 

The problem with going larger than 4x8 is that you need a way to attach the expansion sections. This can be done by building a grid of 1x3's or 1x4's for the plywood to sit on, but this means more work, more cutting and more expense. If you want easy assembly/disassembly, you can make smaller grids that will bolt together. For a 6x8 layout, I'd suggest two 4x4 and two 2x4 grids (this is what I have for my 6x8 tabletop). For a 6x10 layout, I'd suggest two 2x4 grids and four 4x4 grids as shown in the attached photo. The cross-members are in 16" intervals.

 

Now, if you go this route for the 6x8, you can see how you can cut a 4x8 sheet in half across to give you the two 4x4 sections and cut a 4x4 sheet in half for the two 2x4 sections. If you want to expand to 6x10, you'd make a 2x6 section instead of the 2x4 sections and add it at the bottom left. If you want to go to 8x10, you'd just add two 4x4 sections as shown.

 

Incidentally, my tabletop lays on a 4x8 frame made out of eight 2x4s and I don't think it gets any cheaper than that (less than $24). Everything is assembled with screws or bolts, so the entire layout can be disassembled quite easily. If you make each 4x4 and 2x4 section a separate module with the appropriate wiring using connectors, you can disassemble and move the whole thing without having to tear is completely apart. That is how my next layout will be built and I'm not going to worry about the seams between modules.

 

The link I saw had a white coffee table set up that's the one I saw and it looked very nice. 

 

I think  the 6x8 seems the most logical choice because I do not want a lot of left over wood and plus with my budget I won't be expanding quickly anyways from the 6x8. It can fit my smaller needs easily. I probably will only use O-36 fastrack. 

 

I'm thinking when connecting the 2x8 and the 4x8 to make the 6x8 I can use these latches:

 

Do you think these latches are a logical choice for keeping the two pieces together? 

You're really putting me on the spot here and I hesitate to answer because there are too many things I don't know about your plans.

 

I'm getting the impression that you intend to simply set the 2 pieces of plywood on top of some shelving units and clamp the sheets of plywood together. If you do that, then I'd say "no".

 

That said, I understand you may be limited on funds as well as construction experience. If you do not intend to add the 1x3/1x4 support grid, then I strongly suggest you spend the money for 3/4" plywood instead of 1/2". Without a support grid or stable base, 1/2" is subject to warping, etc. You might be able to use 1/2" if you at least put 1/3's around the perimeter of both sheets (under the plywood, not to the sides).

 

So, if I were to TRY this, I've attached an illustration of where I'd start. I can't state that this will work, it's just a starting point for consideration. I've assumed that you'd like to minimize expenses as much as possible. It uses 18"x36"x72" shelving units that are available from Lowe's at around $40 and you'll need 3 complete units to get the 5 partial units in the illustration. The plywood sheets would be attached to the shelving units to make them fairly sturdy. You can try screws, but I'd use small nuts & bolts, especially if you try 1/2" plywood. I'd use a bolt in each corner and 2 in the middle.

 

NOTE: The shelving units come with only 5 shelves. That means that if you go cheap, some of the units would not have a bottom shelf to stabilize them and that could be unsafe. I'd buy enough complete units to be able to assemble the 5 partial units.

 

I did have an illustration that used the clasps, but the more I thought about it, the more I didn't like that idea. So, I separated the shelving units enough to add a 1x4x8 strip beneath the seam. Each sheet of plywood would be attached to the 1x4 and you wouldn't need any clasps. The 1x4 would ensure a flat seam along its length and make the tabletop more like a single 6x8 sheet. With 5 units underneath, you might not even need to attach the plywood sheets to the shelving units, at least not in as many locations. However, if you do attach them to the units, you might be able to use 1/2" plywood after all without any additional support and save some money.

 

  

Recycle milk crates and 3/4 plywood and some 2x4s and the way you go. The ping pong table was the best when I was 15, fold up and out of the way if MOM needed the basement. 

Sounds good Dave.

 

I was mentioning the clasps for quick removal of the layout if needed without having to undo screws that would be in that strip that connects the two pieces of the layout. 

 

I like the idea of the strip since it would give a ton of support and strength but like I said I need something slightly more useful in terms of easy taken down but still strong enough to give results like the 1x4x8 strip. 

 

I will think about this over the next few days. If you have any better alternatives to the clasps please feel free to post. 

 

Thanks for the help Dave this thread will be very useful when it comes time to hopefully get everything I need together. 

Do you have a track plan in mind?  What ever you decide to use you will need to brace the top to prevent warping.  The attached photo shows a part of my bench work before the plywood top was added.

Hey, it's your layout, so I'm good with whatever you want to do after you've considered the alternatives. Here's my original illustration with the shelves relocated and the 3 clasps. You'd need enough complete shelving units to get 3 shelves and 8 legs per partial unit. If my math is correct, 5 units will give you 15 shelves and 48 legs, so you will use all the shelves and have 8 extra legs, not bad.

 

I happen to have a table with those kinds of clasps on them and the top has small metal tabs spaced along the bottom to help keep the inserts aligned, something you could always add.

 

 

Hey Mike, I'm curious. What kind of track you are using? Is it FasTrack that you expect to just lay on the tabletop and not attach with more than a few, if any, screws? Will building and other accessories also just be set on the tabletop and not permanently fastened down?

 

Just so you know, before I built my table frame and grid benchwork, I used an old dining table. I added a 4x8 sheet of 1/2" plywood and put a sheet of 1" foam on top of that. Nothing was fastened down, they all just laid on top of each other. I never added any landscaping or buildings, etc., but the layout itself worked fine to run my train on an oval and a single spur. My point is you'd be surprised what will work depending on your requirements.

 

One thing I just thought of is that instead of connecting a 4x8 to a 2x8 sheet of plywood, you might consider having a foot off each 4x8 sheet and connecting the two 3x8 sheets the same way. That would even things out and put the seam down the middle instead of off to one side. I'd still arrange the shelving units the same way, but the weight might be distributed more evenly.

Here you go!  As promised...

 

Feel free to contact me if you need any details.

 

Overall shot:

 

End Plate:

 

 

2x4 stringers; run the length of the layout (10')

 

 

2x4s notched cross members:

 

 

 

Close up of 2x4 stringers in notch. Notice the gap, as there is a hole for a long bolt to hold it to maintain level.

 

 

Has adjustable legs:

 

 

Layout height right at 43":

 

 

Hollow core doors allows for 3D water effects below grade:

 

Thanks,

Mario

Really nice Mario. Shows just what can be done with limited funds and some ingenuity. I don't know why something simple like that wouldn't last for years and this thread is making me rethink my approach to benchwork. I see modular layouts that are larger than my space and they work with inexpensive folding tables, etc.

I really appreciate the quality and look of benchwork. That being said ln the end it all gets covered up and as long as it's sturdy thats all that matters...

 

 

I plan on using Fastrack so yes. I might try to get some cork board to lay underneath the track to deaden the noise or use foam. 

 

I don't think I will screw down buildings just the track. I don't want to make the buildings permanent in their spot because I might have to move them as new things come in. The track plan will stay the same but the building layout may not. 

 

The two 3x8 idea is plausible. I will check it out.