Legacy and DCS together on layout what do i need?

quote:

Originally posted by niart:
I have always ran lionel locos but I am starting to like some of the offerings mth has. I do not run any conventional. I have a tmcc zw controller with 3 180 bricks, a tmcc base, and a legacy base. I have the cab1 and cab2.


1. What exactly do I need to run mth proto 2 and 3 locos to their fullest potential?
The MTH TIU/Remote kit Product Number: 50-1001
M.S.R.P. $ 299.95 . REV L is the newest with improved signal strength and USB.

2. What connections to track will be needed? That tiu gadget looks to have all kinds of inputs and outputs.
The TIU is put inline between the transformer and the track. It has inputs from the transformer and outputs to the track. Not that bad once you see it.

3. Do proto 3 locos behave as good as legacy locos in terms of low speed and sounds?
PS3s have improved sound. MTH engines have always had good speed control. I can't say if the sound is better but from what I understand they have added memory for sounds.

4 Can top speeds be set on mth locos like you can with legacy?
Yes.

And if I could recommend Barry's book for the $12 or so it's worth it.

Merry Christmas. I run both and am glad I do. Keeps my engine options open.

Marty,

quote:

And if I could recommend Barry's book for the $12 or so it's worth it.

Good answers and a great suggestion - thanks!

Do I need one tiu per brick then? Does track power go thru tiu? Do I need any cables to connect the tmcc or legacy base to tiu?
thanks for the help

Because I run up to 8 engines simultaneously per loop and TIU channel (MUs and double and triple headers), I have 4 TIU inputs using 4 Lionel 180 bricks. I have cut the leads as well as used a plug (I think Lionel) that fits into the 180 bricks. Either way works, just assure that the polarity is the same for all the bricks. Each TIU channel supports up 10 amps and I use as my rule of thumb 6 amps without smoke and at a slow speed 10 smph before adding another TIU channel.

quote:

Do I need one tiu per brick then? Does track power go thru tiu? Do I need any cables to connect the tmcc or legacy base to tiu?

I respectfully suggest that you obtain an education regarding DCS before you just jump in.

There are several venues for you to pursue:

• The first is to visit the MTH and PS2/PS3 Forum. There, you can get information by both following threads about DCS or asking questions of your own.
• The second is to download a free copy of The DCS Instruction Manual from MTH's protosound2 .com web site. This will provide you with a basic understanding of DCS.
• If you prefer to view information, then consider purchasing The OGR Video about DCS. While not a complete treatment of the subject and a little dated (it refers to a release of DCS that's several years older than the current one), it provides a good overview with some detail as regards DCS features and functions.
• For a complete, up-to-date treatment of the subject, including interoperation between DCS, Legacy and TMCC,I'd (humbly) suggest purchasing a copy of my book, The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Eition. This book is the most complete and up-to-date DCS resource available anywhere. It has 215 pages and 64 illustrations, most of which are in color. It's available as a fully searchable PDF eBook or a physical book.

Whatever you decide, best of luck in your DCS endeavors.

It can be pretty easy to install DCS on a layout. It is completely separate from and does not interfere with your Lionel command system. I also use Lionel bricks.

The TIU simply sits between the transformer and the track. The TIU has both fixed and variable voltage taps, but you would need to use only the fixed voltage terminals for command-only operation.

The DCS signal is passed to locomotives via track power, and so clean track, consistent voltage, and proper wiring is important. Ideally, each block on your layout will receive power and common via a single direct feed from the TIU ("star wiring") rather than via a bus, but on my smallish layout DCS just worked fine with my existing wiring. If your layout is large and you think you may need to rewire, you really should check out Barry's book or the other resources he has listed.

There is no need to cross connect DCS with your TMCC/Legacy system, unless you wish to control your non-MTH locomotives using the DCS remote. If so, you can purchase a serial data cable from MTH to connect the TIU to the Lionel command base. DCS maps inputs from the DCS remote to equivalent TMCC commands that are broadcast in the usual way via the Lionel command base to your TMCC locomotives.

quote:

MTH's protosound2 .com web site

Lionel TMCC1 and Legacy user. Just ordered my first DCS engine. Thanks for this thread. You've given me a great headstart at learning DCS and its working with the Lionel control systems.

This is easier then u think buy the dcs set mth #50-1001 and the Lionel 9 pin cable that would let u run Lionel and mth stuff and last but not least take a wire from the base to the tiu black lead and that's it good luck Tom

I just purchased the legacy system and would like to use my cab-1 as well as DCS. I have the cable already running dcs with cab-1. The manual shows how to run both cab-1 with legacy but not with dcs. can it be done. Sometimes seems like dcs controls TMCC engines better than cab-1 betters speed control it seems. Any help will do Thanks Mark

From page 124 of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Editon..

 

 

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

You will find Legacy runs your TMCC engines so much nicer you will only use the CAB-1 if someone is visiting

Great info. Thanks 

Hi Barry,

 

i have your book and i was going through it. on page 123 you have show this connection with just legacy and TIU through a single wire. i am wondering that what is the best way to power the track (since it is not shown in the diagram) in such a situation. should the tracks be directly powered or shall it be powered through the TIU. can you please clarify.

 

Thanks

Harsh

Harsh,

should the tracks be directly powered or shall it be powered through the TIU.

Normally, tracks are always powered through the TIU unless you're operating in Passive TIU mode.

 

If you're operating in Passive TIU mode, you would have the TIU channels and the power sources both connected to the tracks separately.

Hi Barry, i was wondering what is the recommended way so that both legacy and DCS work without any issues.

 

also if i connect the transformer through TIU as shown on page 57, i have to do the page 123 connections as well. i mean i have to do both the connections of page 57 and 123. am i correct?

Thanks

Harsh

Harsh.

what is the recommended way so that both legacy and DCS work without any issues.

If you wire for DCS as per my book, Legacy should work fine as well.

also if i connect the transformer through TIU as shown on page 57, i have to do the page 123 connections as well. i mean i have to do both the connections of page 57 and 123. am i correct?

Yes, that's correct?

Harsh,

choice between a PH180 and Z4000

A Z4000 costs more, however, it allows use of DCS Z4K Tracks, and provides amperage and voltage meters.

At four times the price, it should do a bit more.

I ended up buying 4000. Hope it's good investment

very good investment,,just got mine ,,,love it

I guess I am still getting mixed signals on if I hook up dcs on my legacy layout if the dcs will work or not without modifications in wiring. 

 I have 4 180 lionel bricks now, no zw.  20x30 layout with 2 mainlines with their own brick, 12 sidings powered by one brick, and under layout storage track powered with a brick. 

Legacy works perfect now.  Wiring is not perfectly done for dcs by what I have read.

I guess I just want an educated guess if dcs will work or not???

Don't really want to spend 300 on dcs and 300+ on loco to get frustrating results.

There is no "sure" way of knowing what wiring alterations you'll need to do to an existing layout for DCS.  Our modular club is going through the same issue, we want to add DCS to the Legacy we use, and so far the going has been rocky.

Are you using rev L tiu or older?

I had Legacy for a few months then added DCS. I have 3 180 bricks. 2 yards. About 180 feet of track. 26 switches. 3 yard power kill toggles. I had to alter very little to get 10's on my DCS. Really just added about 8 seperate feed wires out from TIU in star pattern. 

We're testing with one of my Rev. L TIU's, no sense buying a club one until we're sure we can get reliable operation.

 

As far as doing the star, that's easy for a permanent layout, not so easy with a modular layout that comes apart in 4 foot pieces.