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Originally Posted by Marc C:
Originally Posted by FlyerRich:

FWIW, I recently ordered the 990 and a brick. The brick arrived this week and the packing slip indicates a 6/10/14 shipdate for the 990. Like I said, for what it's worth.

Well, the friendly folks over at Legacy Station just let me know that they still have April as a ship date and April has come and gone. They really aren't certain about it's arrival and are just as frustrated to not be able to sell the system as we are to buy it. Frustration has mounted to unprecedented heights from both consumers and retailers. Like everyone here will probably agree, the biggest frustration comes for the lack of communication and involvement from the manufacturers. From Lionel to MTH to Atlas. I'm shocked at the lack of straight forward communication from them. It can't be doing them any good. I think it's time for another manufacturer to get involved and put out a system made here in the USA. I'd pay twice the amount of a Legacy or DCS system if it were made in the USA. Even 3 times the amount! Lionel. MTH, Atlas get your act together 

I think someone posted that Lionel's website lists a 6/14 ship date.  I have not checked it myself but if that information is accurate it ties in nicely with the shipping date shown on FlyerRich's brick purchase.  A June ship date would be nice but its a shame consumers have to piece together tidbits of information like this in order to ascertain a distribution date especially since the updated 990 is in excess of a year overdue. 

 

I agree with your statement that many consumers and retailers are very frustrated with the lack of communication on the part of Lionel on this issue.  I have mentioned several times before on the forum that Lionel should provide a clear and definitive statement as to why there has been such a long delay in shipping.  They owe at least that much to their consumer base.  However, there are those who are willing to give Lionel a pass on this problem and as long there are a lot of train enthusiasts who are willing to do this Lionel can just shrug off the criticisms and remain in stately silence.  

Originally Posted by FlyerRich:

FWIW, I recently ordered the 990 and a brick. The brick arrived this week and the packing slip indicates a 6/10/14 shipdate for the 990. Like I said, for what it's worth.

The ship date indicated in the packing slip is simply predicated on Lionel's shipping schedule having a 990 shipping ETA of May '14.  Now that's very different from the information at York, which was pushing well into 3Q at the earliest.    

 

So here's where I lose patience with Lionel PR.  If these items are really gonna ship in May 2014 and it's now already May 10th, one would think these jewels have been on a boat due in port any day now -- meaning they shipped from the far east a couple of months ago.  Or perhaps they'll get express service and go via air -- still time this month yet.

 

Whatever the case... someone at Lionel should know authoritatively what's going on with these things at this point and say something... at least to dealers/distributors/LHS's and ideally to  toy train enthusiasts as well.  But with reps at York suggesting 3Q with a frustrated or blank look on their faces, that tells me they just don't have any confidence in the real status of the 990 kits.

 

I hope for the sake of those waiting that Lionel can prove me wrong.

 

David

 

P.S.  Just a point of clarification on dates:  when I do pre-order Lionel O-Gauge, 9 out of 10 times it's from Charlie Ro.  And their invoices and website tend to show anticipated ship dates being the 10th day of the month FOLLOWING what's indicated on Lionel's published shipping schedule.  Things get a bit chaotic during year-end when Lionel may ship more frequently, but typically stuff shipping from Lionel seems to leave Lionel's warehouse around month-end during most times of the year.  So expect to see those gems at your door step the following month.

 

 

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer
Originally Posted by rtr12:

       
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
I hope for the sake of those waiting that Lionel can prove me wrong.

 

David

Me too! (I'm one of the waiters)   FWIW, yesterday my LHS told me May 20th, but then added they would believe it when they see it.


       

I preordered in feb and he told me the earliest june. Which seems like its going to be way past it thou.
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by rtr12:

       
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
I hope for the sake of those waiting that Lionel can prove me wrong.

 

David

Me too! (I'm one of the waiters)   FWIW, yesterday my LHS told me May 20th, but then added they would believe it when they see it.

      
I preordered in feb and he told me the earliest june. Which seems like its going to be way past it thou.

The June date would be about right with May 20th as the arrival at Lionel, we can only hope.

 

 

Originally Posted by Matt Makens:

Ive got one 990 set left sitting on the shelf at my store

Thanks Matt, but I went ahead and paid my LHS for mine a couple months ago so I was freed up to try and order some things from the recently released catalogs without still owing for that item too.  I ordered it in Sept. 2013.  It will now probably be gone as soon as someone sees this thread.

 

 

Last edited by rtr12
Wow that's pretty brazen.  I get that the shipping schedule has been wrong on this but do you really think they are intentionally fabricating the ship dates just to make you mad?  If anything I would think, and I've said this before, Lionel wants these out in the public more than you do.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
At least they skipped june one less lie

 

Originally Posted by MartyE:
Wow that's pretty brazen.  I get that the shipping schedule has been wrong on this but do you really think they are intentionally fabricating the ship dates just to make you mad?  If anything I would think, and I've said this before, Lionel wants these out in the public more than you do.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
At least they skipped june one less lie

 

this just shows that they don't know a date and they just make up a month and put a 14 after it they should just put TBA and send out a notice to dealers and subscribers when they know an actual date, just changing it every month does tend to **** people off, and Lionel should be happy it does, i mean if you think about it people are anxious to give them their money, least they can do is be honest about it

I understand people like Legacy but it is not as if you cannot run your trains with TMCC, DCS, or conventional transformer control in the interim.  I enjoy running trains in pretty much any format.  Whatever the issue is, I would much rather them make sure the units are "right" then send something that is less than ready for prime time.  And there is probably a reason -- something to do with keeping some sort of commercial issue between Lionel and the factory in China private -- that prevents them from being more transparent.  In a strange way, I am actually encouraged in the sense that this delay is so contrary to Lionel's interest that I would guess they have a good reason, probably related to quality control, for the delay.

 

And if you really need a system, I guess there is Ebay or other private venues. 

Last edited by RAL
I just think calling them a liar is pretty uncalled for.  Wrong again?  Yep.  Mark it as TBA?  Yep.  Intentionally lying?  Nope I doubt it.
 
I have absolutely no issue with folks wanting to know and getting mad at the delays but I think it's poor form to call them liars.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:
Wow that's pretty brazen.  I get that the shipping schedule has been wrong on this but do you really think they are intentionally fabricating the ship dates just to make you mad?  If anything I would think, and I've said this before, Lionel wants these out in the public more than you do.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
At least they skipped june one less lie

 

this just shows that they don't know a date and they just make up a month and put a 14 after it they should just put TBA and send out a notice to dealers and subscribers when they know an actual date, just changing it every month does tend to **** people off, and Lionel should be happy it does, i mean if you think about it people are anxious to give them their money, least they can do is be honest about it

 

I do not understand how manufacturers can under estimate demand for their control systems. It seems to have happened to both Lionel and MTH (Legacy and DCS). 

 

Delays like this is a turn off. 

 

I only have two Legacy engines (the Polar Railroad GP-7 and a Lionmaster Big Boy). I have the new-for-2014 Scale Polar Express on preorder.

 

One thing is certain, when the Legacy control system comes back in stock I will grab one.

Last edited by Terrence L
Originally Posted by MartyE:
I just think calling them a liar is pretty uncalled for.  Wrong again?  Yep.  Mark it as TBA?  Yep.  Intentionally lying?  Nope I doubt it.
 
I have absolutely no issue with folks wanting to know and getting mad at the delays but I think it's poor form to call them liars.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:
Wow that's pretty brazen.  I get that the shipping schedule has been wrong on this but do you really think they are intentionally fabricating the ship dates just to make you mad?  If anything I would think, and I've said this before, Lionel wants these out in the public more than you do.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
At least they skipped june one less lie

 

this just shows that they don't know a date and they just make up a month and put a 14 after it they should just put TBA and send out a notice to dealers and subscribers when they know an actual date, just changing it every month does tend to **** people off, and Lionel should be happy it does, i mean if you think about it people are anxious to give them their money, least they can do is be honest about it

 

i said lying as in pretending they know when they ship when in reality they don't they are lying because they put down may then it changed to July, you think they are positive about July wait until end of july it will say sept and that will keep going until they actually ship. , i know Lionel has no control of this but to keep pushing and pushing without letting anyone know why they been delayed for almost if not more then a year, i think and explanation is called for and also just mark them TBA instead of keeping everyone hopes up when they know the truth

 

I've had one on backorder for 6 months and I'm OK waiting. In fact, a 2015 release date is fine by me. I have a LEGACY CAB-1L/BASE-1L Command Set that works great. I have more TMCC locomotives than LEGACY so the CAB-1L/BASE-1L is just perfect.

 

Whenever the 990 LEGACY Command Set arrives I'll honor the backorder and use my CAB-1L remote with it in addition to the CAB-2..

 

I wonder how many sales on LEGACY locomotives Lionel will lose as a result of the delay especially since the DCS is now available.

And the guessing game and rumor mongering continues and all thanks to what seems to be corporate negligence.  There is absolutely no excuse for any corporation not taking steps to inform an extremely interested, loyal consumer base as to why a particular item has not been released.  The revolving door distribution date is at this point laughable.   

Originally Posted by JSP:

Lionel website just updated the ship date from May 2014 to July 2104.  Anyone believe them?

NOPE!  They've cried 'wolf' to many different times.  

 

I'll believe it is here when it arrives on my door step....

 

For what's it worth, my dealer told me today Lionel said July.  Sure he checked the web site also and knows about as much as we do.  

 

Said they have 24 Legacy systems on back order (Keep in mind, this is only one store).  Reality is some of us who have been waiting aren't going to get ours from the initial shipment.  Hope I'm wrong.

 

My Lionel dealer is as frustrated as we are...h#ll of a way to run a business...

Last edited by 86TA355SR
Originally Posted by Terrence L:

I do not understand how manufacturers can under estimate demand for their control systems. It seems to have happened to both Lionel and MTH (Legacy and DCS). 

 

Delays like this is a turn off. 

 

I only have two Legacy engines (the Polar Railroad GP-7 and a Lionmaster Big Boy). I have the new-for-2014 Scale Polar Express on preorder.

 

One thing is certain, when the Legacy control system comes back in stock I will grab one.

MTH just ran out and it took a couple months to replenish the stock. I don't think DCS was unavailable all that long. With so many products made by both MTH and Lionel, I can see this happening once in a while to either company. Just part of doing business these days where everything is made overseas.

 

Lionel is actually having problems, and they appear to be getting worse. They were supposed to have the Legacy's back in stock last fall. That is what I originally heard when I ordered mine in Sept. '13. It would be nice if they would tell us what is wrong instead of just changing the shipping dates every couple months. 

Originally Posted by catnap:

...

I wonder how many sales on LEGACY locomotives Lionel will lose as a result of the delay especially since the DCS is now available.

Well, if we're to believe the posts from OGR sponsors taking record numbers of orders for Big Boys -- and some of these may sit on display shelves, since folks don't necessarily have sufficiently broad radii to do the BB justice  -- it seems Lionel's inability to deliver Legacy 990 kits has had little if any impact on locomotive orders.   

 

When all is said and done, toy train enthusiasts largely buy on impulse... whether it's an in-store purchase or a pre-order -- especially when it's the latest and greatest feature-product like the Big Boy.  People just get lost in all the hype and buzz, then deal with the details later... like running it with non-existent Legacy controllers.  

 

David

Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Originally Posted by catnap:

...

I wonder how many sales on LEGACY locomotives Lionel will lose as a result of the delay especially since the DCS is now available.

Well, if we're to believe the posts from OGR sponsors taking record numbers of orders for Big Boys -- and some of these may sit on display shelves, since folks don't necessarily have sufficiently broad radii to do the BB justice  -- it seems Lionel's inability to deliver Legacy 990 kits has had little if any impact on locomotive orders.....  People just get lost in all the hype and buzz, then deal with the details later... like running it with non-existent Legacy controllers.  

 

David

Like David, I was surprised by the record orders also.  Doesn't seem to have much impact on Legacy locomotive purchases.  Hate to say it, but it hasn't stopped me either.

 

I'm taking good care of a certain VL Challenger, Dave!   

 

Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Originally Posted by JSP:

Lionel website just updated the ship date from May 2014 to July 2104.  ...

Well that oughta put ear-to-ear grins on the faces of eBay sellers.  Anybody wanta guess what the next group of eBay 990's will sell for???  

 

David

Way more than I'll pay for one-I have a lot of patience 

Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:
I just think calling them a liar is pretty uncalled for.  Wrong again?  Yep.  Mark it as TBA?  Yep.  Intentionally lying?  Nope I doubt it.
 
I have absolutely no issue with folks wanting to know and getting mad at the delays but I think it's poor form to call them liars.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:
Wow that's pretty brazen.  I get that the shipping schedule has been wrong on this but do you really think they are intentionally fabricating the ship dates just to make you mad?  If anything I would think, and I've said this before, Lionel wants these out in the public more than you do.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
At least they skipped june one less lie

 

this just shows that they don't know a date and they just make up a month and put a 14 after it they should just put TBA and send out a notice to dealers and subscribers when they know an actual date, just changing it every month does tend to **** people off, and Lionel should be happy it does, i mean if you think about it people are anxious to give them their money, least they can do is be honest about it

 

i said lying as in pretending they know when they ship when in reality they don't they are lying because they put down may then it changed to July, you think they are positive about July wait until end of july it will say sept and that will keep going until they actually ship. , i know Lionel has no control of this but to keep pushing and pushing without letting anyone know why they been delayed for almost if not more then a year, i think and explanation is called for and also just mark them TBA instead of keeping everyone hopes up when they know the truth

 

I don't think they are lying at all, They are just not addressing the problem head on with their customers. Beating around the bush maybe? As far as Lionel not having control over this problem, I don't agree. If that's the case, maybe that IS the problem. It is their product, and also their flagship product. If they can't control it I don't know who can? After this round, I bet they will have more control over it in the future.

Originally Posted by rtr12:

       
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:
I just think calling them a liar is pretty uncalled for.  Wrong again?  Yep.  Mark it as TBA?  Yep.  Intentionally lying?  Nope I doubt it.
 
I have absolutely no issue with folks wanting to know and getting mad at the delays but I think it's poor form to call them liars.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:
Wow that's pretty brazen.  I get that the shipping schedule has been wrong on this but do you really think they are intentionally fabricating the ship dates just to make you mad?  If anything I would think, and I've said this before, Lionel wants these out in the public more than you do.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
At least they skipped june one less lie

 

this just shows that they don't know a date and they just make up a month and put a 14 after it they should just put TBA and send out a notice to dealers and subscribers when they know an actual date, just changing it every month does tend to **** people off, and Lionel should be happy it does, i mean if you think about it people are anxious to give them their money, least they can do is be honest about it

 

i said lying as in pretending they know when they ship when in reality they don't they are lying because they put down may then it changed to July, you think they are positive about July wait until end of july it will say sept and that will keep going until they actually ship. , i know Lionel has no control of this but to keep pushing and pushing without letting anyone know why they been delayed for almost if not more then a year, i think and explanation is called for and also just mark them TBA instead of keeping everyone hopes up when they know the truth

 

I don't think they are lying at all, They are just not addressing the problem head on with their customers. Beating around the bush maybe? As far as Lionel not having control over this problem, I don't agree. If that's the case, maybe that IS the problem. It is their product, and also their flagship product. If they can't control it I don't know who can? After this round, I bet they will have more control over it in the future.


       


If they are controlling the problem then they are lying about the date because if they have control they know exactly when it would be ready , and they can just say listen it wont be ready until this day but they keep beating around the bush because their answers come in the same format, if they had control their would be no way their flagship product would be delayed a year plus on top of that every lionel rep gets asked and their response is they dont know but most likely ex:june , they would not beat around the bush if they knew there is no reason especially now that 90% of the people dont believe the date anyways.
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       

Well obviously you know exactly what's going on and have it all figured out. Lionel would be stupid not to get you on the team and straighten it out. 

 

 


       


Where does it say i know exactly whats going on tell me ?, Lionel is smart not to have you on their team

Then maybe that does make it a 'Control' problem...hehehe  (get it, Legacy, Control, I say, I say that's a joke son!) (Might have been just a slight pun intended here)

 

Seriously, my point above was that if they do NOT have control of their products, that IS their problem and should by all means be corrected as soon as possible. I also realize problems do come up that no one could possibly predict and that could be what has happened here?

I am serious as can be. I think you have it figured out. I think if you worked for them you'd get the info out and the ship date accurate. It sounds like you'd be on top of it.
 
i get the impression that you're a no nonsense, get it done, kinda guy. I like your idea that it should be TBA. That would certainly take the angst out of it. 
 
I really thought about what you posted early and I'm wrong. I think they intentionally post bogus delivery dates knowing they'll pass and re-update them. I agree they do lie to us and I'm glad you called them on it. It takes one person to stand up and take them to task. 
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       

Well obviously you know exactly what's going on and have it all figured out. Lionel would be stupid not to get you on the team and straighten it out. 

 

 


       

Where does it say i know exactly whats going on tell me ?, Lionel is smart not to have you on their team

 

Last edited by MartyE
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       
I am serious as can be. I think you have it figured out. I think if you worked for them you'd get the info out and the ship date accurate. It sounds like you'd be on top of it.
 
i get the impression that you're a no nonsense, get it done, kinda guy. I like your idea that it should be TBA. That would certainly take the angst out of it. 
 
I really thought about what you posted early and I'm wrong. I think they intentionally post bogus delivery dates knowing they'll pass and re-update them. I agree they do lie to us and I'm glad you called them on it. It takes one person to stand up and take them to task. 
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       

Well obviously you know exactly what's going on and have it all figured out. Lionel would be stupid not to get you on the team and straighten it out. 

 

 


       

Where does it say i know exactly whats going on tell me ?, Lionel is smart not to have you on their team

 


       

Thank you, i kind of took it that as a wrong way earlier so i apologize but in all seriouness all these post wont make the 990 come faster we just all want an explanation and the change the dates every month skem just makes it worst because the excitment turns into anger and if they would just mark it tba nobody would even look anymore until their  dealer call them telling them its in,  but for the lieing part SOMEBODY HAS TO KNOW SOMETHING , they just have to there is again no way lionel employees themselves sit there and question if it shipped get , the 990 isent an engine its the control systems that helps us decide to buy more legacy equipment and starting with the vision BB i can imagine alot of lost in sales wouldt you be on top of an important product like the 990 ,
I think it's safe to say everyone wants them to come out. We are all very passionate. We just want to run trains.  While I think they are not intentionally putting out misinformation, I think they feel they have to put something out. 
 
i too when legacy was first scheduled to come out years ago, I too asked for an update on this forum.
 
And you are correct that Legacy = more Legacy engine purchases. That's why Lionel still fixes the old ones as warranty repairs. In the end I'm not sure we'll ever know what the hold up is. 
 
Im sure urge they follow this board and know Legacy or lack of is a serious problem. Hopefully the passion shown here will help the shipping schedule changes. 
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       
I am serious as can be. I think you have it figured out. I think if you worked for them you'd get the info out and the ship date accurate. It sounds like you'd be on top of it.
 
i get the impression that you're a no nonsense, get it done, kinda guy. I like your idea that it should be TBA. That would certainly take the angst out of it. 
 
I really thought about what you posted early and I'm wrong. I think they intentionally post bogus delivery dates knowing they'll pass and re-update them. I agree they do lie to us and I'm glad you called them on it. It takes one person to stand up and take them to task. 
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       

Well obviously you know exactly what's going on and have it all figured out. Lionel would be stupid not to get you on the team and straighten it out. 

 

 


       

Where does it say i know exactly whats going on tell me ?, Lionel is smart not to have you on their team

 


       

Thank you, i kind of took it that as a wrong way earlier so i apologize but in all seriouness all these post wont make the 990 come faster we just all want an explanation and the change the dates every month skem just makes it worst because the excitment turns into anger and if they would just mark it tba nobody would even look anymore until their  dealer call them telling them its in,  but for the lieing part SOMEBODY HAS TO KNOW SOMETHING , they just have to there is again no way lionel employees themselves sit there and question if it shipped get , the 990 isent an engine its the control systems that helps us decide to buy more legacy equipment and starting with the vision BB i can imagine alot of lost in sales wouldt you be on top of an important product like the 990 ,

 

Last edited by MartyE
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       
I think it's safe to say everyone wants them to come out. We are all very passionate. We just want to run trains.
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       
I am serious as can be. I think you have it figured out. I think if you worked for them you'd get the info out and the ship date accurate. It sounds like you'd be on top of it.
 
i get the impression that you're a no nonsense, get it done, kinda guy. I like your idea that it should be TBA. That would certainly take the angst out of it. 
 
I really thought about what you posted early and I'm wrong. I think they intentionally post bogus delivery dates knowing they'll pass and re-update them. I agree they do lie to us and I'm glad you called them on it. It takes one person to stand up and take them to task. 
 
Originally Posted by Calabrese94:
Originally Posted by MartyE:

       

Well obviously you know exactly what's going on and have it all figured out. Lionel would be stupid not to get you on the team and straighten it out. 

 

 


       

Where does it say i know exactly whats going on tell me ?, Lionel is smart not to have you on their team

 


       

Thank you, i kind of took it that as a wrong way earlier so i apologize but in all seriouness all these post wont make the 990 come faster we just all want an explanation and the change the dates every month skem just makes it worst because the excitment turns into anger and if they would just mark it tba nobody would even look anymore until their  dealer call them telling them its in,  but for the lieing part SOMEBODY HAS TO KNOW SOMETHING , they just have to there is again no way lionel employees themselves sit there and question if it shipped get , the 990 isent an engine its the control systems that helps us decide to buy more legacy equipment and starting with the vision BB i can imagine alot of lost in sales wouldt you be on top of an important product like the 990 ,

 


       

Im just really fustrated i was always more of an mth type of person and i finally get my hand on some lionel stuff and i have to keep it in conventional because no one even knows why, and i really feel its a waste to buy the cab 1-l that just giving lionel more money and then purchase a 990 when its finally released yes we just want to run our trains i 10000% agree
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