legacy base and cab-2 file corruption UPDATE 7-13-2015

Anything's possible, but I don't know how likely it is.  Most of the information is stored in the base, and I did have one instance of an entry getting corrupted and unusable.  I used the LSU to edit the entry and clear out whatever was causing the problem.

You can do a number of settings from the LSU, I've never tried to change the markers to control the class lights, so I don't know if that is possible or not.  I also think the functions of the various light controls would be dependent on the specific locomotive, as not all of them have the individual controls for each light group.

GRJ,  this is affecting BB only so was curious if the files were possibly corrupted will check out the base using LSU what exactly would I look for?

Since you have a sensor track, have you tried just driving the VL-BB over the sensor track?  It will load up all the information automagically.

As far as using the LSU, what I did is zero everything in the entry I was having issues with and then just reloaded it.

GRJ, I reset base and remote misplaced the module for BB so loaded manually.

it was working for 4 button pushes for smoke unit then it would not respond to any cab-2 commands prior the tender lights were on/off for 3 cycles.

other legacy engines seem okay but then they don't have all features BB has either.

I have noticed at cab-2 startup and shut down the screen gets a blue washed out look is this normal?

I feel like I'm battling 2 issues at same time! guess a call to lionel is in order see what tricks they may have.

thanks for the help.

It does sound like you have more than one issue.

I have had the washed out blue before on the cab-2, changing the batteries fixed my problem.  Have you tried reseting the BB?  Page 29 in the owners manual.

electric_express_200,  I have reset Big Boy did not help. I tried a fresh set of batteries in cab-2 no change.

GRJ, I think I have stumbled upon issue.  I believe it to be the cab-2.

I used the LSU and reset base and cab-2 as delivered.

I then used the V1.53 update modules on both cab-2 and base all shows on cab2 as being V1.53 on both.

I then added the BB engine module into and updated the cab-2 all was working except the background sounds so huh unlike most men I read the legacy book and using remote pushed aux-1 and then volume up key and there the sounds were.

I then edited in LSU so tender on/off buttons were selected and saved the changes.

I then powered up BB and all features were working tender lights on/off each button press.

But after setting background sounds volume the tender lights and smoke stopped responding to button presses.

so I powered BB down and turned cab2 off, and then using the tmcc cab1 I started the BB up and all works I can turn smoke on/off at will sure wish it had a tender light on/off.

so I'm certain the issue is not the BB but rather the cab2 key as if cab1 will work all then?

I hope to call lionel monday morning and see what tricks they have or if a return RA # is needed.

one question when you reset base to clear all settings does it not also clear all engines and the information also.

reason I ask is on cab2 even though info is gone other than engine assigned numbers I accidentally switched to a engine id# and the engine responded!

or are the engine id# not cleared so an engine that has the corresponding number selected will still power up?

It's odd that it works in TMCC mode, but not Legacy mode.

Did you call up the aux lighting menu to see if any of those settings affect things?  How about reprogramming the BB for a different engine number to affect a reset of all the settings?

The locomotives store the ID.  The Legacy base only stores info for the ID.  So if you clear the base, you can still address and control the locomotives.

GRJ, you have me at a loss where is the aux lighting at?

In Legacy mode for the VL-BB, hold the AUX2 key for three seconds and a secondary lighting menu will appear.  Hit it again to return to the default screen.

GRJ,  with BB engine powered up in legacy mode aux2 holding button down screen stays same no second screen ever shows up.

Is there a setting that I might have locked this aux2 feature to off?

should I clear both base and cab2 and start over upgrading to V 1.53?

or is this last aux2 issue mean the cab2 is not working correctly period?

First off, nothing but the base has to be powered up to experiment with the keypad displays, the Legacy system is a one-way system.

It sounds like you don't have the CAB2 programmed for the engine in Legacy mode.  If you have loaded the module into the CAB2 for the VL-BB, you'd get a screen that looks like this when you start it up.

Hold the AUX2 key for a couple seconds and you'll get this.

If you're not seeing those, you probably have not configured the engine correctly.

GRJ,  I have first screen but nothing like second screen!

now I move switch from run to program then power layout up and then

1. push eng button and using keypad push 4 then 0  that creates ID#40

2. I power layout off wait 10 seconds or more

3. move switch from program to run

4.I power layout up

5. turn cab2 on push info button

6. select load and insert BB 4005 engine module

7. select load

8. remote says engine data loaded remove module.

Is this all correct?

now after clearing the cab2 and base back to factory settings do I have to reload V 1.52 first and then V 1.53 or can I load from settings all cleared straight to V 1.53?

sinclair,  thanks for the information I thought maybe that id#'s stayed personally I would have setup software when asking to clear all that it would include the engine id#'s as well.

Clearing the CAB2 doesn't affect the firmware version, you only load the firmware in once.  If it was 1.53, it stays that way until you reprogram the firmware.

Make sure that you have engine 40 (if that's your BB) selected before loading the module, whatever engine is selected is where the data goes.

Once you load the module, you remove it and then when you run, you should have the Legacy features available.

GRJ, so if I reload V1.52 in cab2 and base it will removeV1.53 correct?

so then should that aux2 second screen appear using it or is that a V1.53 only feature?

now anytime I reset engine id# it auto defaults to on/off for front classification lights only is this normal?

as if I use LSU and go to engine data I can change it from that to tender red lights on/off and then classification lights always stay on.

I appreciate your help on this issue.

do you live close to this club?

paradise & pacific rr

they should be able to help.  if not drive over to san diego some Tuesday and I will help you.  bring your BB and run it on our layout.

If you load 1.53, it'll stay there until you load another version.

The module I'm talking about loading is the engine module, not the firmware module!  The VL-BB came with an orange module, that's the one you load using the load button.

The firmware load is done a totally different way, but I really don't think loading firmware is your issue, you have the engine incorrectly specified.

You can key in the information on the orange module, and you can also tweak the aux lighting menu with the LSU.  It's just a lot more work than simply plugging in an orange module and pressing load.  The engine data will also be loaded if you run the locomotive over the sensor track.

GRJ, I cleared everything on cab2 and base. and yes I understand your talking about the engine module and this is all I get out of it it has correct information loaded to cab2.

but it auto defaults to where engine marker lights are turned on/off using the T on/off at lower left of cab2 remote isn't it supposed to be set to turn the outer red tender lights on/off?

I reset engine to a new id# and then used the BB module to load it to new engine id#.

then I loaded V1.52 to base and the cab2, it showed no tender light or rule 17 buttons on cab2 screen and aux2 did not change screen from main view.

then I upgraded base and cab2 to V 1.53 then the tender and rule 17 buttons reappeared on cab2 when I addressed the BB.

but alas only thing cab2 and aux2 do is turn all engine lights on/off but a 3 second count or more does not allow that second screen to appear.

I think we have exhausted all possible things to try as am sure if I didnt do something right I would get a error message when loading modules.

on upbeat side I get no cab light flashes from the BB so at least that is a good sign.

I have a S-3 and a gvo engine loaded both engine modules and get same results aux2 will not change screen to show other screens showing available button features in next screen.

I don't think I could mess up 2 more times loading the engine modules.

either the cab2 shows it as under legacy control or it doesn't and seeing my settings show all 3 engines setup as under legacy control what more can I do??

  am very frustrated all this started with the tender sounds going south in a curve. fixed all those issues but this one has me stressed out.

Did you load the VL-BB orange module?

 remote shows engine id#5 and screen shows union pacific BB 4005

ifo says

engine 5 is set for steam [stm]

cab mode is set for lionel  legacy [leg]

sounds is set at legacy r s  [lrs]

far as I know this is all you have to select from in cab2 settings and this was auto loaded from engine module.

okay I tried changing from leg to cab1 and also tmcc control mode.

now after i manually set the cab mode from tmcc setting to legacy setting both the tender and rule 17 icons have vanished!!

why did that occur? and yet remote is selected as stm-leg and legacy sounds where did the 4 icons go??

I inserted BB module only one I have and said yes to load it and now those 4 icons are back!!!

yes think its time for the lionel techs to provide an insight to this.

thanks for all your help in trying to resolve this issue.

I think it's time to take to Lionel.  I'm running 1.54, but the difference between 1.53 and 1.54 was only some 50hz fixes.  I know the aux lighting menu worked with 1.52 as well, so I'm at a loss.  The fact that it doesn't come up suggests to me something is amiss with the CAB2, the engine being on the tracks or not makes no difference.

I was curious, so I went to an unused TMCC ID on my CAB2 and entered Steam and Legacy into the INFO.

When I exit INFO, the Rule-17 and Marker light icons are present.  When I hold the AUX2 key for a couple seconds, the aux lighting menu appears.

No engine was involved, and the track power was off, just the Legacy system was powered.  If that doesn't work, there's something amiss with the Legacy itself.

I setup an engine id of 88 never been a number in my cab and if I did it all as you did I selected stm and leg and leg for sounds.

when i left the info screen I had no tender or rule 17 icons showing on screen looked  like tmcc screen with its icons.

and doing a manual change from leg to tmcc and back netted same results.

so your thinking same as me that the legacy base and cab2 are the culprits causing my dilemma.

Well, what I can say is that's not the behavior I'd expect.  I second my suggestion to talk to Lionel, nobody knows more about the Legacy than they do.

You might send an email to Jon Z. (SantaFeFan here at OGR) he's the paragon of knowledge on all things Legacy, and the CTO of Lionel.

GRJ,  I slept on this and this morning I tried one last time.

I cleared data base and then I went all the way back to V1.0 then up to V1.52 had same results no aux2 screens!

so I had thought I wonder if both sets of V1.52&V1.53 are no good? both are from lionel the v1.52 sent from lionel and V1.53 I purchased at a local hobby shop.

so I connected base to computer and using the black module I loaded V1.52 from LSU for base and cab modules and loaded both of them result........

I now have the use of aux2 hold button down, I have access to that second set of settings so hopefully things will mellow out with the BB and its issues with non response to cab2 button pushes.

any thoughts on what might be wrong with the V1.52 and V1.53 modules for base and cab2?

Now how can I get the V1.53 using the LSU and base connected to the computer?

sometimes we have to be stubborn and walk away and retry the next day.

I don't have a clue what might have happened to the blue modules.  I haven't used any of those since 1.3, I write my own and do the upgrades.

My suspicion would be that they're not getting seated properly, I've seen that before.  Hard to believe the actual content is corrupted on multiple modules.

I know about walking away, many times I'll wake up in the morning smacking my forehead at the simplicity of a problem I wrestled with the day before.  I guess my brain does run a bit when I'm sleeping.

You just need a black module to write the CAB and BASE downloaded files to the module using the command base and LSU.  With one module, I'd write the base module first, then launch right into the upgrade with the module in place.  Next, write the CAB module and then plug it in and upgrade the cab.

If you don't have any black modules, you can check my thread Free Black Modules For Legacy if you feel like making one from one or more of the blue modules.

I only have the one black module but hey it at least works!!

do you have to go to lionels website to get a module download for V1.53?

am leary of even putting my lionel supplied V1.53 upgrade modules for fear of lossing it again.

I'm not tech savy to try the make your own black module ones.

Here's the direct link to the 1.54 software download.

Legacy Cab-2 & Base Software Version 1.54

This appears on this page for the Legacy #990 Command System, the software upgrade files are down under the Software update heading.

John,

the Legacy system is a one-way system.

I understand that Legacy is one-way to the engine but not back to the base. However,m isn't it two-way between the base and the Cab-2?

Yes Barry, my point was that you don't have to have the engine on the track to configure the remote, all you need is the command base and CAB2.  I believe that's exactly what I said.

First off, nothing but the base has to be powered up to experiment with the keypad displays, the Legacy system is a one-way system.

GRJ, thanks for the new update files took me awhile to remember how to unzip/extract them for use but I managed to get both to V1.54 and for once it actually allowed me to save a backup of settings to my computer.

now when I go to lionels website I cannot get access to upgrade downloads!

I went to resources and legacy upgrades is that the correct/incorrect way to get to past and current updates?

and whew after V1.54 aux2 still working as it should.

thanks again for all the help and sticking with me to completion on my issue.

a new question do you have to push keypad medium firm press to get things to work?

reason i ask is sometimes a soft push nets zip but a more solid push works and sometimes i get a response from a feature next to it on where i pushed on keyboard of cab2 remote.  wish they had a setting to select from easy to more sensitive touch pad on each key press.

you did teach me that legacy doesn't have to have track power or both units powered up to see if things are as they should be.

have a great day all.

Well, you do need the base and the CAB2 powered to experiment, but you don't need track power, the Legacy system will not mind that there's no locomotive at the other end.  As long as the CAB2 sees the Legacy base, it's happy as a clam, and will allow you to do any valid operation, even though nothing is really happening beyond the base.

I have a total of three remotes, and none of mine activate other buttons, but they need more than a brush of the fingertip as a rule.  I don't apply a ton of force, but enough that you know you're pushing on something.

If the adjacent keys are triggering, I'd talk to Lionel about that, that's not right.

will do on ask lionel about key presses.

I did send Jon an email about issues with upgrade modules I offered him my 4 if he wanted to see whats going on with them.

stand corrected on both being powered up to check things out.

John,

my point was that you don't have to have the engine on the track to configure the remote, all you need is the command base and CAB2.  I believe that's exactly what I said.

You should have qualified what you meant by stating "the Legacy system is a one-way system". As it stands, it gives a false impression.