Legacy Cab-2 finally running LionChief Trains

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

DCS with Legacy. That's something I've been talking about in a few of my own posts. Controlling LC/LC+ with a Legacy remote would be great. Since you can run an LC+ engine with a conventional transformer, I could use Legacy and my Powermaster to operate LC+ locos (if I ever choose to buy any; I like Legacy better).

It is possible, but you lose things like the ability to fire couplers when running conventionally. In my opening video I have proven that we can maintain all the feature of LC+ including smoke and volume control all without the app or remote when the right hardware is in place. At this point I am aiming to run DCS, Legacy, and LC/LC+ on the same layout at the same time.

I'm with you on liking Legacy better, but my wallet really prefers LionChief. I think the best option is to run a mix of both from one remote and call it a day

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The 2.4" one looks like a good choice, so I can go along with that choice.  The lettering on the tiny one would have been a bit of a challenge for anyone visually impaired in any way.

As per your recommendation I committed to the 2.4 inch LCD. I just pulled an all nighter developing a whole menu system for the 2.4 inch screen that is controlled with the cab 2 buttons. Here is the video to show the results of my efforts so far:

If anyone has feedback or thinks this is the right direction for the project, let me know. I personally think it has the potential to be pretty user friendly.

I like that display, I can read it.

Nice work, Really like that.

BRAVO!!!  I just went through a bunch of your videos... Keep up the GREAT work!@!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I like that display, I can read it.

Thanks, I am pretty happy with it too. I may even be able to stick with this display size since I had more room to work with than I expected.

Wouldn't you agree this is exactly the step this project needed to move in to make it actually accessible?

Up next I figure I will add the ability to control the menu with the LionChief app or Universal LC Remote. (I can program for specific remotes but will take a little time before it can automatically emulate another LC loco).

@O Scale Ange posted:

Nice work, Really like that.

Thanks, I am glad to hear any positive feedback to know I am moving in the right direction here.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

BRAVO!!!  I just went through a bunch of your videos... Keep up the GREAT work!@!

Glad to hear it! As you can see I am a big tech guy and software engineering stuff like this keeps me going. I love to expand upon existing functionality like this and my goal is to bridge as many different technologies together as possible to allow total flexibility of things like remote control choice, lockable limits on speed for use with kids or even public displays, or even simply unifying Lionel's own product lines (they are moving in that direction with LC+2.0 I know but this goes way beyond that).

Thanks for the kind words of support.

@Ryaninspiron posted:

Thanks, I am pretty happy with it too. I may even be able to stick with this display size since I had more room to work with than I expected.

Wouldn't you agree this is exactly the step this project needed to move in to make it actually accessible?

Up next I figure I will add the ability to control the menu with the LionChief app or Universal LC Remote. (I can program for specific remotes but will take a little time before it can automatically emulate another LC loco).

Yep, I think the display will be key for usability, so that was a good move.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, I think the display will be key for usability, so that was a good move.

Thanks, now for the tricky step, making all the back end stuff dynamic enough to work with the interface. Also adding on board memory to keep the settings between reboots. So far the TMCC engine ID assignments have all been hard coded in the software. Time to change that.

That's really impressive, good work. I also like the larger display, another set of older eyes here. Looks like you have things working pretty well with the menus too. Very nice.

Hi, in the original post in this topic, under video number 6 you speak about the Legacy simulator for a PC? The video didn’t contain much information. Could you speak a little to how that turned out. The reason I ask is that I am a totally blind Lionel operator. Since the CAB2 is a touch screen, without the benefit of any physical buttons I cannot use it. I can use TMCC through the CAB1L but that limits some of the Legacy features. I don’t see Lionel making the CAB2 accessible and even their iPhone app has some serious accessibility issues. An app on a Windows PC that could control Legacy and TMCC locos would make the system much more accessible. Is this something that is possible and if so can I get involved in the testing? Please contact me directly if you have a moment. Very interesting possibilities here.

choochoo@technologynation.us

@ChooChoo1972 posted:

Hi, in the original post in this topic, under video number 6 you speak about the Legacy simulator for a PC? The video didn’t contain much information. Could you speak a little to how that turned out. The reason I ask is that I am a totally blind Lionel operator. Since the CAB2 is a touch screen, without the benefit of any physical buttons I cannot use it. I can use TMCC through the CAB1L but that limits some of the Legacy features. I don’t see Lionel making the CAB2 accessible and even their iPhone app has some serious accessibility issues. An app on a Windows PC that could control Legacy and TMCC locos would make the system much more accessible. Is this something that is possible and if so can I get involved in the testing? Please contact me directly if you have a moment. Very interesting possibilities here.

choochoo@technologynation.us

Frank,

That is awesome to hear that you have tuned into my videos, I will be in touch with details very shortly but I can absolutely help you with that.

Even my new ideas like the LionChief gateway could easily support adding a Text to Speech module. That way my gateway board can speak out which menu it is on and you will be able to fully interact with Legacy, TMCC and LionChief locomotives. As a Lionel partner program member I can write programs to access any ability of the Legacy system given enough time and effort.

Hearing this message from you makes me want to drop everything and get you fully up and running asap. I am already thinking of possibilities like an announcement system that reads out the status of any engine on the layout. Information like current speed setting, direction, and other status info. I could also map all the legacy buttons to keyboard keys for example.  We could use the Lionel's Layout Control System (LCS) to connect their sensor tracks across your layout to an announcement system that can let you know when a train arrives at a certain location or station. The Lionel Layout Control System app may give popup messages on screen but  I can imagine they never developed that app with accessibility in mind, just as you mentioned. I could even build a physical remote replacement using all physical buttons and switches complete with brail labels if you wanted. Exactly like you said, "very interesting possibilities here", I would even call them exciting possibilities.

Anyway I can certainly develop an app or software with accessibility as the first priority. Windows will be the easiest to work with but for phones I only know how to write android apps at the moment. I may just learn iPhone programming if I have to though. Either way I can make it happen.

So thank you for reaching out to me, I can't wait to get to work with you on this.  I will reach out directly for some more specifics you had in mind. But after we work those details out I think we should setup a dedicated forum thread for this Lionel Accessibility topic. That way we can have the many great minds on this community see if they have any further ideas to contribute.

Regards, Ryan

Hey Ryan,

I've enjoyed watching your progress.  What you're doing with the TMCC/Legacy and LC control integration is really cool!  I'm impressed with your tenacity, as well as programming and electronics skills.  Your UI is coming along nicely as well.

I'm presently running a mix of LC versions, Atlas TMCC 1 (conventionally), and other conventional Locos.  I have the Universal LC remote too.  Hopefully, a Legacy control system is in my future.

I also have experience beta testing software and electronics systems and providing constructive feedback.  If you find you have want/need of testers with my system limitations, please let me know and I'd like to help.  My email is in my profile.

SteveH

@SteveH posted:

Hey Ryan,

I've enjoyed watching your progress.  What you're doing with the TMCC/Legacy and LC control integration is really cool!  I'm impressed with your tenacity, as well as programming and electronics skills.  Your UI is coming along nicely as well.

I'm presently running a mix of LC versions, Atlas TMCC 1 (conventionally), and other conventional Locos.  I have the Universal LC remote too.  Hopefully, a Legacy control system is in my future.

I also have experience beta testing software and electronics systems and providing constructive feedback.  If you find you have want/need of testers with my system limitations, please let me know and I'd like to help.  My email is in my profile.

SteveH

Steve,

That's absolutely great to hear. Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate them very much.

I much closer to early testing stages than I am to full release so your message comes at the perfect moment. I can get in touch with you about the details soon and start the testing pretty quickly. Right now I am using a new type of control board that allows me to update the software via the internet. That all means I can push out new updates all without any effort on your part.

I am sure there will be plenty of bugs in the beginning but having external help to find those bugs will help progress things along much faster. Not to mention you get up an running way before I am confident the bugs are all worked out. Not having TMCC is fine. I plan on using the LC remote/app as an alternative input method to the gateway very soon anyway. This system is certainly not exclusive to TMCC/Legacy bases. It's meant for everyone. All you need are trains

-Ryan

@Ryaninspiron posted:

Frank,

That is awesome to hear that you have tuned into my videos, I will be in touch with details very shortly but I can absolutely help you with that.

Even my new ideas like the LionChief gateway could easily support adding a Text to Speech module. That way my gateway board can speak out which menu it is on and you will be able to fully interact with Legacy, TMCC and LionChief locomotives. As a Lionel partner program member I can write programs to access any ability of the Legacy system given enough time and effort.

Hearing this message from you makes me want to drop everything and get you fully up and running asap. I am already thinking of possibilities like an announcement system that reads out the status of any engine on the layout. Information like current speed setting, direction, and other status info. I could also map all the legacy buttons to keyboard keys for example.  We could use the Lionel's Layout Control System (LCS) to connect their sensor tracks across your layout to an announcement system that can let you know when a train arrives at a certain location or station. The Lionel Layout Control System app may give popup messages on screen but  I can imagine they never developed that app with accessibility in mind, just as you mentioned. I could even build a physical remote replacement using all physical buttons and switches complete with brail labels if you wanted. Exactly like you said, "very interesting possibilities here", I would even call them exciting possibilities.

Anyway I can certainly develop an app or software with accessibility as the first priority. Windows will be the easiest to work with but for phones I only know how to write android apps at the moment. I may just learn iPhone programming if I have to though. Either way I can make it happen.

So thank you for reaching out to me, I can't wait to get to work with you on this.  I will reach out directly for some more specifics you had in mind. But after we work those details out I think we should setup a dedicated forum thread for this Lionel Accessibility topic. That way we can have the many great minds on this community see if they have any further ideas to contribute.

Regards, Ryan

Hi Ryan; I am humbled. Your skill and hard work are impressive. I don’t know where to begin. My first thought was a Legacy control app for Microsoft Windows that has clearly labeled controls and menus that are screen reader friendly. I like your idea of mapping keys to certain functions. That would be a quick and easy way to control things in the Legacy world. That would be awesome for anyone using a screen reader like myself. Looking at this at an even deeper level making items like the LioneChief Gateway speak could have some far-reaching prospects. Even for folks who don’t identify themselves as blind or visually impaired the number one cause of vision los in the U.S. is becoming Age Related Macular Degeneration (AMD). That is where the center of the eyes (the macular) starts to become desensitized to light. That makes it very difficult to read printed items. I can see a market here for text to speech as many of our older brothers and sisters in the hobby would rather look at their beautiful trains than have their face stuck inches from a control screen. I don’t see a controller with braille labels as being too practical since only about 10 percent of folks who are legally blind ever learn it. That may be too small of a market. However, that doesn’t mean blind or visually impaired folks can’t use touch screen devices. The general model of accessibility for touch screen devices is that the first touch of the control will speak what the control is and bring focus to the control and then a double tap of the control activates the control. That way the user can just walk their finger around the screen to explore it with text to speech. Thanks for all the great ideas. In 1901 Lionel trains were on the cutting edge of high-tech toys. I am glad to see that 120 years later the hobby still has that spirit. I look forward to hearing more.

Be well.

@ChooChoo1972 posted:

Hi Ryan; I am humbled. Your skill and hard work are impressive. I don’t know where to begin. My first thought was a Legacy control app for Microsoft Windows that has clearly labeled controls and menus that are screen reader friendly. I like your idea of mapping keys to certain functions. That would be a quick and easy way to control things in the Legacy world. That would be awesome for anyone using a screen reader like myself. Looking at this at an even deeper level making items like the LioneChief Gateway speak could have some far-reaching prospects. Even for folks who don’t identify themselves as blind or visually impaired the number one cause of vision los in the U.S. is becoming Age Related Macular Degeneration (AMD). That is where the center of the eyes (the macular) starts to become desensitized to light. That makes it very difficult to read printed items. I can see a market here for text to speech as many of our older brothers and sisters in the hobby would rather look at their beautiful trains than have their face stuck inches from a control screen. I don’t see a controller with braille labels as being too practical since only about 10 percent of folks who are legally blind ever learn it. That may be too small of a market. However, that doesn’t mean blind or visually impaired folks can’t use touch screen devices. The general model of accessibility for touch screen devices is that the first touch of the control will speak what the control is and bring focus to the control and then a double tap of the control activates the control. That way the user can just walk their finger around the screen to explore it with text to speech. Thanks for all the great ideas. In 1901 Lionel trains were on the cutting edge of high-tech toys. I am glad to see that 120 years later the hobby still has that spirit. I look forward to hearing more.

Be well.

Frank ,

My very long winded response email has been sent. As soon as we square away some details about the shape of this project we can bring it all back to the forum under a dedicated topic.

Also thanks for the compliment.

-Ryan

Might as well put this particular update video of mine on this thread too (and not just in the original LC Gateway Topic) since it shows the exact reverse option of the opening topic also offered by the LC Gateway. The ability to run Legacy/TMCC locos via a LionChief Remote or App.

Also taking advantage of the speed limit, so the throttle happy youths of the world can run the grown up's trains. All while making it physically impossible to see how far the legacy loco can fly through the air after hitting a turn at max speed.

Now you got to get TMCC/DCC control. Not DCS.

@Bruk posted:

Now you got to get TMCC/DCC control. Not DCS.

In what way specifically? TMCC is pretty much covered as per my other demo videos. Any particular reason I should avoid rolling DCS into this project? You seem to specify not DCS.

And also are you proposing I bridge in DCC so that you can also run DCC locos of any scale from the Cab1/Cab2 and LionChief remotes? I mean I could see that being neat since I do have the same Penn Central SD70ACE in 3 different scales that all can run on DCC. It could be fun to really make the Cabs an all in one remote.

@Ryaninspiron posted:

Are you proposing I bridge in DCC so that you can also run DCC locos of any scale from the Cab1/Cab2 and LionChief remotes? I mean I could see that being neat since I do have the same Penn Central SD70ACE in 3 different scales that all can run on DCC. It could be fun to really make the Cabs an all in one remote.

Yes,

The market needs to bridge DCC into main stream O gauge market. The function customizations and sounds available for DCC boards surpass anything available from main stream O gauge. All DCC decoders are user customizable.

To be able to control the decoder with the Cab-1/Cab-2 remotes and or DCS is what needs to happen. Basically it be the same concept of the BlueRail but instead of using your phone you can use what most have. A Cab or DCS remote.

You'd think the market would have already brought DCC to main stream O Gauge.  It hasn't happened though has it!

Myself, zero interest in DCC.  Hopefully running Legacy and DCS for a long time to come...

I'm iffy on the DCC thing.   I believe only some S (S-Helper and American Models) and 2 rail O are using DCC. So not sure how that works into the equation.   The only other DCC implemenation that I'm aware of is BlueRail,( BlueTooth communication to control a DCC board)  but that has it's own control app.

@Bruk, @MichRR714, @Casey_Jones

I have pulled your posts into a whole new forum topic for us to talk DCC integration out there since it seems like something worth hearing feedback about and has potential to be significant. New topic on that here: https://ogrforum.com/...dge-from-tmcc-to-dcc