You will need the Lionel Legacy 990 command set. Lionel 6-14295.
@Kevin1 posted:You will need the Lionel Legacy 990 command set. Lionel 6-14295.
Will that impact operation of any units I control via Bluetooth both what I have now or future purchases?
Also - do I need a separate Controller to run additional/new Legacy units that are not Bluetooth or does the Cab 2 (or Cab 1) have the ability to select from unit to unit?
Or should I go the TMCC route which apparently is different(?) than Legacy control. Sorry for my confusion.
The Legacy command set will only operate the Legacy features if an engine has them. It does NOT control Bluetooth. You can control many Legacy engines through the command set.
@Raven87 posted:Will that impact operation of any units I control via Bluetooth both what I have now or future purchases?
No Legacy puts a radio signal on the track that all Legacy/TMCC locomotives look for and will wait to respond to. Any LC locomotives will not care just simply ignore that signal for more information on Legacy and Bluetooth checkout THIS thread
The Cab-2 can simultaneously run 5 locomotives at the same time.
Great information. Thanks guys. I’m going to buy the system.
@Raven87 posted:Since I’m still learning about the Legacy environment and am a big fan of Bluetooth control, what more do I need to be able to integrate non-Bluetooth Legacy units into my layout?
I must admit I’m not clear on what additional hardware (and cost) would be needed to expand that way?
First, the Lionel Legacy and others (TMCC- K-Line, Atlas, Third Rail) will ALL run using the TMCC (Cab 1) OR the Legacy Cab 2) systems. And any of the TMCC, LC, LC+ or Legacy engines will run using a conventional transformer.
To run in that "environment"- you need to buy a TMCC ("Cab1") or a Legacy ("Cab 2") system - which have a Command Base, and a handheld Cab. The TMCC system has been replaced by Legacy (since the late 1990s) and the Legacy systems since.
The differences are that TMCC has fewer features (but more than I ever use). The Legacy system's handheld controller is more sophisticated, with digital readout, while TMCC uses keyed commands. The Legacy system has more "speed steps"- so finer control, than the TMCC system - both have far more "Steps" than a conventional system. And the legacy base/handheld Cab 2 is a rechargeable system.
Prices: a used TMCC System- about $175 with the "Command Base" and the handheld (Cab 1). A second handheld is a plus so two operators can run at once- those are around $100 on that auction site. But each TMCC system can control (I think) 99 locos, or accessories or combination. You can also buy NEW, old stock TMCC sets, but they are getting more rare.
The Legacy Command System is between $ 350-400 new, and used ones are about $100 or so less.
BOTH Lionel systems hook up with ONE wire connected to an outside rail, and the Command Base plugged into the wall for power. NOTE- the TMCC and Legacy systems use the house wiring as an antenna- and the round "ground" post of the power cord is a part of that- you cannot replace the cord or plug with a regular cord, OR plug it into an extension or power strip. This is (IMO) THE big difference- the Lionel systems do not rely on perfect track to track connections, and are not generally affected by the size/ length of the trackage on the layout.
Locomotives: The ability to run from a LionChief Universal Remote, or use a Bluetooth device does not have anything directly to do with the command system- those are built into the locomotive. So an older Legacy engine will not run with the Universal Remote, OR your phone or tablet.
Interestingly- by using a power source (Lionel Power brick, or ZW-L) configured to operate with Legacy or TMCC, you can also control your conventional engines by using the system to vary the voltage to the track. Very cool. IMO- the handheld control is THE thing I like, plus the many features.
There are BOOKS written on these systems, and I have a writeup I can send if you just e-mail me that you want it: mikewyatt49@gmail.com
Thanks Mike! I just emailed you about the info.
Another question - what are the Legacy Writeable Utility Modules used for and how many come with a complete system?
Steve
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Beats me- I use the TMCC System.
@Raven87 posted:Thanks Mike! I just emailed you about the info.
Another question - what are the Legacy Writeable Utility Modules used for and how many come with a complete system?
Steve
The rewritable modules allow you to load multiple engines on them so if you go to a club or another layout you can have all of you locomotive information. Originally legacy locomotives came with a orange module that had their own information. This gave the system the name of the locomotive and road number. Not necessary but a very nice touch and then it would tell it that it was a for example Legacy diesel with Legacy rail sounds. The base must be informed as to what you are going to run. If you give it no information it will stay in cab-1 mode and anything will work but you loose all the very cool legacy features if it’s a Legacy locomotive. If it’s a TMCC locomotive I MUST be on TMCC mode so that the base isn’t trying to send out the 9bit Legacy signal because the TMCC locomotive will not understand and will not function properly.
the black modules are also used to upgrade the Legacy base and Cab-2 remote.
I hope this helped.
Thank you Zacharia. Very helpful.
Steve
@Mike Wyatt posted:And any of the TMCC, LC, LC+ or Legacy engines will run using a conventional transformer.
An important correction to the above statement, LC (meaning non + or non 2.0 LionChief) engines WILL NOT run with ONLY a conventional transformer. A conventional transformer can power the track the LionChief engine is on.
However, to operate the LC engine one of the following is required.
a, the LC engine’s specific LionChief controller
b, a Universal LionChief controller
c, or for Bluetooth equipped LC engines the LionChief app can be used instead of a physical controller.
@GregM posted:An important correction to the above statement, LC (meaning non + or non 2.0 LionChief) engines WILL NOT run with ONLY a conventional transformer. A conventional transformer can power the track the LionChief engine is on.
However, to operate the LC engine one of the following is required.
a, the LC engine’s specific LionChief controller
b, a Universal LionChief controller
c, or for Bluetooth equipped LC engines the LionChief app can be used instead of a physical controller.
Correct! I mis-stated.
Thanks for all the excellent advice and information. This is a great site!
Steve
I just bought a barely used (complete with manuals, etc) pre-owned Legacy 990 system that the previous owner had just purchased last fall. It is supposed to be here in a week so I’m really excited.
Any suggestions on things to look for given it is a pre-owned system? Can’t wait to learn the ins and outs. Best thing of all it opens up my options for future Legacy Locomotive purchases.
Steve
It was originally shipped from the factory with rechargeable batteries inside the handheld. Make sure that they're present and functional. At some point they won't hold a charge anymore as they age.
There are several postings on this forum about what you can use for replacement batteries if yours are bad. It comes down to using exact replacements from Lionel, or third-party rechargeables. You could also use standard alkaline batteries if you can tolerate changing them occasionally, or perhaps often. If you do use alkalines though you must turn the charge switch on the base off, because these aren't meant to be charged.
Mike
Nothing wrong with pre-owned Legacy 990 set. As long as it’s not abused Lionel has been fixing all of them for free under warranty even if you are not the original owner.
as far as checking a new one out I’d second the batteries. Most don’t like to use the 991 base to charge batteries as other electronics make it warm. The 994 charger out of the 993 expansion set is good to charge batteries though.
also I’d make sure it’s up to date.
Cab-2 V1.61
Base V1.6
are the most up to date software versions
@Raven87 posted:I just bought a barely used (complete with manuals, etc) pre-owned Legacy 990 system that the previous owner had just purchased last fall. It is supposed to be here in a week so I’m really excited.
Any suggestions on things to look for given it is a pre-owned system? Can’t wait to learn the ins and outs. Best thing of all it opens up my options for future Legacy Locomotive purchases.
Steve
It arrived this evening and I’m going to set it up tomorrow.
Exciting things ahead!
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I'll say it again: Legacy is amazing. Plus, if you have a new Legacy Powermaster like I have, you can run pretty much any loco from a conventional engine to the latest Legacy engines. I'm hoping Lionel will make an updated Legacy system with some new features soon.
@Dylan the Train Man posted:I'll say it again: Legacy is amazing. Plus, if you have a new Legacy Powermaster like I have, you can run pretty much any loco from a conventional engine to the latest Legacy engines. I'm hoping Lionel will make an updated Legacy system with some new features soon.
I definitely agree it is amazing - and I’m just learning the system.
Just a quick follow up... I have to say thank you again to everyone who encouraged me to look closely at the Legacy line and control system. You were absolutely 100% right - it is night and day so much better than anything I imagined.
From the details on the locomotive to the sounds and then, to top it all, the incredible realism in the performance, I am still completely blown away EVERY time I fire up one of my Legacy Diesels. I can’t express how much joy they bring me.
So, I’ve already listed my Lionchief set for sale and now own two Legacy Union Pacific Diesels with a third on the way. I am hooked. Completely.
So, again - thank you. You were right!
Yep, thats how it starts, and then.........$$$$$$$$
The lion chief SD60M engines from a few years ago are a great choice. They are scale bodies, identical to the legacy version, have a great horn, run great and there are still a few new ones out there. $449 to $499, a very good compromise. they were offered as Burlington, Too Line, Conrail ,CSX ,NS, and UP in 2017 Signiture catalog. East Side Trains in Seattle still had some recently
@pdxtrains posted:I'm a bit confused. I have no Legacy system but run Lionchief and Lionchief+ (as well as MTH wit only the DCS Explorer.)
I have my eye on the LionChief 2.0 GG1. It has a bunch of bells and whistles. Can I access all features (Mars light, etc.) using just the Lion Chief App, or do I need a Legacy system to fully access all the 2.0 features?
Still hoping someone will answer pdxtrains question. I am curious as well if all LC+ 2.0 features can be accessed through the lionchief app. I know with legacy the answer is NO, but would like to know about LC+ and LC+ 2.0 as related to the app alone.
If someone answered this I apologize, I missed it.
Brad
@B rad posted:Still hoping someone will answer pdxtrains question. I am curious as well if all LC+ 2.0 features can be accessed through the lionchief app. I know with legacy the answer is NO, but would like to know about LC+ and LC+ 2.0 as related to the app alone.
If someone answered this I apologize, I missed it.
Brad
The short answer is no. There are still other sound effects you can get to with a Cab-1(L) or Cab-2 that the app or universal remote won’t allow you to get
a couple of examples would be the “crew talk” and the new “train talk” (I think that’s what they called it) can be independently accessed on a Cab on the app or UR all you have is one announcement button and it’ll play what ever it wants. Others also said you can also get the diesel refueling or coal refueling sounds with the Cab. Lastly the Cab’s also allow you to access the RPM levels on diesel locomotives.
hope that helps
@zhubl posted:The short answer is no. There are still other sound effects you can get to with a Cab-1(L) or Cab-2 that the app or universal remote won’t allow you to get
a couple of examples would be the “crew talk” and the new “train talk” (I think that’s what they called it) can be independently accessed on a Cab on the app or UR all you have is one announcement button and it’ll play what ever it wants. Others also said you can also get the diesel refueling or coal refueling sounds with the Cab. Lastly the Cab’s also allow you to access the RPM levels on diesel locomotives.
hope that helps
Thank you. Do the LC+2.0's have labor chuff for steam? Revs for diesels? I care more about that than the crew talk features. I didn't think they had that feature.
I was thinking the LC+ 2.0 engines were designed for Bluetooth use, so I figured all the features they had would be within the app by itself and the fact that they work with the cab1/2 remotes was just an option .
I don’t believe the steam locomotive have any way of getting a more labored chuff. But I do think you can adjust diesel RPM. I have a LC 2.0 ET44 at home I’ll have to give it a try Sunday.
