Let the Lionel LCS WiFi games begin! Post your thoughts here!

How exactly does it "work" with LCS? 

When I say it works with LCS I mean the Legacy Control System and not the Layout Control System.  I don't know why Lionel created two systems with the same Acronym.  Does that answer your question?

I don't understand this. Doesn't the wifi module transmit Legacy formatted commands to the Legacy base thru it's DB9 serial port?

There's some sort of lock or handshake required to talk to the Legacy base in Legacy mode, apparently the WiFi or SER2 modules know the secret handshake.

I doubt that Lionel is going to reveal the "secret", whatever it is.

You are right. Lionel is not going to reveal the secret.

But that does not mean it can't be "hacked."

Last night on the NPOG club layout, we noticed an oddity, not sure how to explain it. 

When you are operating a Legacy locomotive and use the CAB2 to change speed or some other operation, the function buttons on the LCS display change and the display throttle resolution changes from 200 steps to 32.  It appears it thinks it's TMCC, because running full throttle still runs at full speed.  Switch away from that locomotive on the LCS and then back, and the throttle display is back to 200 steps.

Good question...I didn't pin that one out to anything. It must be internal in the network of the LCS modules and cables.

Here's a diagram of the DB9 to LCS connector power cable that LCS requires one of.

Disregard the DB9 pin to to the MAX232...that was from when I was wondering where the send signal was coming from in the Legacy Base. My MAX232 chip went belly up. Lionel replaced the whole board in service repair and it all works now

Well that's interesting. 

So the #5 ??? Mystery wire does not actually connect to the base?

That means all commands, both tmcc and legacy, go through the same two wires. 

If the Lionel WiFi device is required to send legacy commands from iPad to legacy base, then that tells me that the iPad app is sending the commands in some sort of different format. 

The base doesn't care where the commands come from. It only cares about the commands being in a format it can interpret. Therefore, the Lionel WiFi device is translating the commands from the iPad into a format the base can read 

You'll note that the cable only has the standard transmit, receive, and ground connections.  I suspect the "secret handshake" I spoke of is the magic.

Could be a wakeup or "this is going to be a command", etc. word. I doubt that it's meant to be a secret. How long could that last now that the LCS info comes in thru the DB9?

If they plan on restricting the Legacy command set to the SER2 or WiFi connection, it'll have to be somewhat secret.

I guess you are right. 

I just didn't make sense to me that a legacy base was unable to receive legacy commands directly through the rs232 port but could receive tmcc commands. Its as if the original design didn't call for that feature. 

I agree with Harvy, they wouldn't have made such a big deal of needing one of these to use the protocol if there wasn't something to it.  I'm sure it could be made available at the Legacy base, but they made a marketing decision.

The WiFi module or the Ser2 modules "register" wih the Command base to unlock the Legacy command extensions. I do not know if the registration is only at power-up or if it repeats periodically via some packet exchange. in any case i can send the now-published  $F8 (Legacy) commands into the Ser2 module's serial port and they work perfectly. 

//

Old people prefer the old technology of remotes.

i don't tweet

i don't use facebook

i put shopping lists on pieces of paper

I think there are definitely some trade-offs between an app and a dedicated remote.  Soemthing to keep in mind - lionel (or anyone now I suppose) could always make a remote that is powered by an app. 

Take your legacy remote and remove the touchscreen and top screen.  Replace that area with a hole an iDevice fits into.  The iDevice powers the remote, but the remote also gives you physical buttons that you can "feel."

There is a lot of potential and only time will tell where we go next.  I've decided I'm going to try and learn how to program for iDevices.  I've got a control scheme in my head that would allow me to run trains with my iPhone without having to look at the device (which means I can keep my eyes on the trains, where they want to be).  Hopefully, I make my way through the learning and can turn my idea into reality.  If it works good, I'll release it to share with the rest of the hobby.

Marty,

It was good to see you at York and at the Legacy breakfast.

You do a fantastic job with the breakfast.

Many thanks.

I didn't want to divert attention from the discussion of the LCS to ask a question about trains. I thought that would be inconsiderate.

I will admit I did not understand one single thing discussed at the meeting.

I guess the target audience is better suited for this stuff. I have to go find a ten year old.

I've had more trouble with my remote CAB2s than ever with my iPhone. Next, we need and iBase

Actually the only trouble we've had with the iPhones is when Viki dropped one in the pool and then later drove over one with the car.

The 5th wire is used to synchronize the recording system between IR Sensor tracks.

>> but they made a marketing decision.

NO! we made a technical decision.  There are good technical reasons why we needed to establish the LCS PDI wiring to allow extended Legacy commands to be injected into the system.

Jon, can you tell us briefly what made the requirement for the SER2 or WiFI module necessary as opposed to going directly to the Legacy Base?  I confess, I'm not sure I understand why that would be necessary, but clearly you know this stuff a lot better than any of us.

Help needed.. got the wifi unit hooked up . I find it in setting on the  ipad but when I click to connect with app it can not find the wifi on the I pad any subjections. The wifi and  I pad are connecting every time. I make sure the lionel is selected in setting before going to the app. If anyone can help like to uses the I pad for my dispatcher in our operation sessions. thanks

What version is on your command base and Cab2?  Not sure if that's the issue but I know 1.52 is required for LCS operations.

Thanks for getting back. My version is 1.52

I find that sometimes I have to turn off and back on the ipad wireless and the app to get a connect...I guess you tried that?

Hello Francis,

First, please confirm that your LCS WiFi switch is set to Access Point mode.

Next, let us know where in the following list of steps the problem occurs, and what messages, if any, are displayed. (note that this information is excerpted from this help page on the lionel.com/lcs website) You can see pictures of what to expect, including the red/green LINK ICON by viewing the above help page link.

• Go to your iPad’s Settings App and choose view your current General settings.
• Click on Network.
• Under WiFi, be sure you are connected to the network that includes the LCS WiFi module. If your LCS WiFi Access Point/Join Network switch is set to “Access Point,” choose the network name beginning with “Lionel LCS - xxxx.” (Access Point gives the best performance and is preferred.) If your LCS WiFi is in “Join Network” position, connect to the network name of your home or club wireless network.
• Once the correct wireless network has been selected, return to LCS App
• Tap “Retry” if asked, or tap the red link icon.

Marty phones and tablets will be obsolete along with remotes!

soon to be watch devices with a jewelers magnifying lens headset.

does make you think what will replace this latest technology?

strange as it may seem the transformer runs

all as it did in the dark ages. [just kidding]

I wish all well enjoy the new technology.

I just upgraded to an ADTPulse system that of course has a separate WiFi; So when I add the MTH WiFi I will have 5 going at once

1. My house network

2. My wireless phone network

3. My Lionel WiFi

4. ADT Pulse; and

5. MTH WiFi

At that point, will I start glowing??

Insightful!

The data rate into the base in normal mode (9600 baud) is the issue.   We have to open the base comm port with an extended protocol at 115k baud to process Legacy commands into the system.  When we do this, the interface must be carefully controlled as we have access to all of the internal data records in this mode.  Caution and protection must be enforced to prevent system corruption, thus the SER2 is that "gate", and a requirement.

Thanks Jon, just curious what drove the requirement.  As I said, I bow to your knowledge of the system, and I retract my marketing decision comment.  I didn't realize you went to a higher speed on the interface.

I think you'll be okay. I have a few dozen WiFi client devices on my home network, and I haven't even felt a buzz yet