I just checked the prices for Lion chief plus, and are they kidding? When Lion chief came out, they were suppose to be affordable for anyone just getting into the hobby. Now, they’re almost as much as some of the Legacy ones. What happen to Lionel? I know, its there profit margin. And how many of those bought will be sent out for repairs, including the Legacy ones. This is sad for anyone coming into the hobby today. Again, what happen to Lionel? It saddens me to think about this once cherished enjoyable hobby. How is Lionel going to stay relevant in this business climate, today. I don’t think I’ll be giving my money away for an overpriced inferior product. Thank you, Lionel. You lost a customer.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Agree about QC issues in light of price increases. Prices easier to swallow if QC is improved.
Biggest problem (as I have been maintaining) is lack of affordable CONTROLS and their availability. Open source is the answer to that instead of wanting it all and not delivering making excuses about supplier issues. Let others compete to make the controls and you sell the engines with QC improved.
John
@Grampstrains posted:The problem is too many wanted LC+ to be more like Legacy. So Lionel added more Legacy type features and made it possible to work with a Legacy remote. So now those wanting a budget friendly engine are left out in the cold.
From where did they determine that "too many wanted LC+ to be more like Legacy"? This forum?
The sets are geared toward model train intros and Christmas gifts for kids. So it can't be them. It looks like you can't buy a starter set with a dedicated remote anymore. You have to also purchase a universal remote or use an app. The so-called LionChief 5.0 versions (Bluetooth 5.0)
John
i like the features of lionchief plus 2.0 but i hate the prices
the prices are the main reason why i've been unable to obtain an LC2.0 engine or set and with my godparents not understanding cost vs features makes it very hard to convince them to let me get an lc2 engine or set
they just see that big price and that its only an engine and immediately say no.
heck i could probably ask them now and they'd say no
@Grampstrains posted:A starter sets still comes with a remote. No others do.
Are you sure they still make those?
John
Apples and oranges. Lionchief sets are still quite cheap, and they're also stripped down versions. LC+ and LC+ 2.0 was kinda' logical, at least to me. Simple marketing, the market wanted a Lionchief with more capability. FWIW, LC+ is extinct as near as I can see, LC+ 2.0 and plain LC are the only players left standing.
I grabbed up several LC+ engines at great prices a while back after they stopped making them. I love the fan driven smoke compared to standard LC. I have a couple LC+ 2.0 engines but with the prices of LC+ 2.0 I would rather go with the MTH Railking Imperial line or spend a little more and go with Legacy even if only using bluetooth. I just don't notice a big price difference between LC+ 2.0 and Legacy anymore especially with diesels.
Brad
When they started with LC+ 2.0, there were some bargains. I picked up two of the LC+ 2.0 Docsider 0-6-0 locomotives for $200/ea. That was a steal for a locomotive with cruise, fan driven smoke, full Railsounds, and electrocouplers! Of course, the re-release two years later increased the price a bunch, and the street prices went up to around $300!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:When they started with LC+ 2.0, there were some bargains. I picked up two of the LC+ 2.0 Docsider 0-6-0 locomotives for $200/ea. That was a steal for a locomotive with cruise, fan driven smoke, full Railsounds, and electrocouplers! Of course, the re-release two years later increased the price a bunch, and the street prices went up to around $300!
Yea that was a bargain. I picked one up to for $225 from the first run. Also did the chuff rate modification as you did.
Brad
It's reality that prices of most consumer goods have dramatically increased worldwide since the pandemic associated supply chain issues. Obviously borrowing costs went up several fold, and some companies may have seen an opportunity to increase their profits. Inflation is not limited to toy trains, and certainly not to Lionel alone. Some of this may be lower volumes and loss of some economies of scale/volume. Check out MTH prices these days compared with 4-5 years ago, as another example. And 3rd Rail's apparent decision to stop making new steam brass locos due to escalating costs and projection of insufficient volumes at multi-thousand dollar retail pricing.
It appears the possibility of producing bargain priced locomotives and any other consumer equipment in China is no longer realistic. Menard's prices remain relatively reasonable, but they too have gone up quite a bit over the last few years, on a percentage basis.
"When Lion chief came out, they were suppose to be affordable for anyone just getting into the hobby. "
LionChief is still pretty reasonably priced, compared with Legacy and PS3 locos. MTH no longer makes sets, and I suspect one reason is that the retail price would greatly exceed what they sold for just a few short years ago. That said, a LionChief Thomas set could be had for not much more than $150 a few years ago. That's no longer the case, although some LionChief sets can be had for $200-300. That's HO and N Scale territory, but with command control and sounds which you will not find in that price range for most scales. So still relatively affordable for what one gets compared with other scales, in my view. LionChief + 2.0 is more like TMCC with postwar style appearance, about $100-150 less than Legacy.
I like the LC+ 2.0 locomotives. They like everything else in the hobby have become more expensive but the alternative LionChief locomotives don’t perform nearly as well. The most recen offerings in LC+ 2.0 perform on the track as well as the Legacy offerings as far as actual running performance. For those like myself that have smaller layouts they are, in my opinion, great. I’m a late comer to 3rail. My previous model train experiences were HO, N, and G. I had looked at 3rail 40 years ago and found it primitive in operation. I know many find it charming but for me it was a hard pass. It wasn’t until I had the opportunity to run a Lionel Legacy locomotive in 2019 that I decided to invest in 3rail. I’m not a mass accumulation type of hobbyist so price is not a factor.
@Craftech posted:Agree about QC issues in light of price increases. Prices easier to swallow if QC is improved.
Biggest problem (as I have been maintaining) is lack of affordable CONTROLS and their availability. Open source is the answer to that instead of wanting it all and not delivering making excuses about supplier issues. Let others compete to make the controls and you sell the engines with QC improved.
John
The rest of this discussion just reinforces the point I made earlier. LC+2.0 is attractive because you don't have to worry about unavailable control systems. It is built in and operable from a universal remote.
John
These days....no matter what brand...I shop the sales...I too thought the LC+ 2.0 Halloween Mikado was a bit too pricey...waited for the folks at Nassau Hobby to run a sale and snatched it up for a song.
Sunrise
My son really wanted a Big Boy with the oil tender back when 4014 rolled under its own power. The $1200 price tag back in 2019 from Lionel was too much to bear but MTH ran an imperial model in 2022 for $350 less. The wait was worth the savings.