Lionchief 44 tonner

@MtnMan posted:

is this Lionchief locomotive something that I should consider?

Sure don't see why you should not consider it. Might want to see what others who buy it report, but I have a number of LionChief products and they perform just fine.

@Allan Miller posted:

Sure don't see why you should not consider it. Might want to see what others who buy it report, but I have a number of LionChief products and they perform just fine.

We use Lionchief and LC+ switchers at the club in some of our industrial areas.  Use them with confidence - they are a fine low-end product.

-Greg

At 10 1/2 inches long, this sounds more like a remake of their oversized post-war 44-Ton locomotive, not a scale sized 44-ton locomotive.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

At 10 1/2 inches long, this sounds more like a remake of their oversized post-war 44-Ton locomotive, not a scale sized 44-ton locomotive.

Since it's LionChief+, this probably makes sense.

LionChief locs are good buys.  Fun, reliable.  If Lionel makes the 44-Ton in Southern Pacific, I'm in.  Two paint liveries would be ideal!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

At 10 1/2 inches long, this sounds more like a remake of their oversized post-war 44-Ton locomotive, not a scale sized 44-ton locomotive.

That’s the one John. I suppose they had to do find something to do with the tooling! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Just to be clear from what I've seen. This 44 toner Lionel recently released is a Lionchief and not a Lionchief Plus.

@Allan Miller posted:

Sure don't see why you should not consider it. Might want to see what others who buy it report, but I have a number of LionChief products and they perform just fine.

As B rad points out, it’s Lionchief, NOT plus. Lionel’s site lists lots of electronics inside, but beware of the model itself. Before you buy, keep in mind this is a lower end locomotive. I can’t think of any lower end diesel out there. It’s a copy of the over sized postwar 44 ton switcher, except a lot of plastic in the trucks with this version. Not a lot of heft compared to other diesels. Lionel site says it has motorS (plural), but does it? I think in the past this model had one motor.

Yes.  That's no ElectroCouplers, no Cruise, plastic trucks, fuel tank etc...

Jon

Man, a lot of misinformation here and biased opinions.

Since Lionel does not currently have a scale proportioned 44 ton switcher, if Lionel announces a 44 ton switcher, chances are pretty good it's not going to be a scale proportioned loco. Especially since it was pictured in the back of the catalog along with the other LIONCHIEF engines, not with the LionChief PLUS engines (as B rad noted).

And you can't always believe the copy text in the catalog. On the next page, the new LionChief Dash 8 loco is also listed with a length of 10-1/2 inches.

When Lionel LTI (under Dick Kughn) reintroduced the 44 ton switcher, the PRR to be exact, it came with dual DC motors, as have all the others including the Rock Island, Southern, and Lionel Lines. There was a CSX version cataloged in a set that never got made, due to tooling problems according to then Lionel CEO Jerry Calabrese. On the other hand, nearly all of the starter set and separate sale lower end NW2's all came with a single motor truck only.

NO, the modern LTI Lionel starter set NW2 does not use the same exact sheet metal frame as the reintroduced LTI 44 ton switcher: They're different parts with different part numbers. Maybe the postwar versions did.

Beginning with that Pennsy version (6-18905), the 44 ton switchers have always had a majority of plastic parts. The fuel tank is part of the shell itself, and since the shell is plastic, makes sense the fuel tank would be plastic.  But being it's a dual motored engine, it still pulls as well as does any comparable type dual motored engine, regardless of the loco's "heft." Previously, the prior releases came with 2 steel block weights, screwed to the frame over the trucks. With what I read on this forum about problems and defects on recent high end locomotives that are FAR more expensive, with far more metal parts, "heft" is no assurance of quality or longevity.

The biggest obvious visual change to the LTI made 44 ton switcher was the retooling to accommodate the delrin plastic handrails on the front, back and sides. A better idea as compared to the much more fragile (but scaled in appearance) handrails used on the WBB scale 44 ton switcher. Problem with the Lionel delrin ones, is that they are prone to warping, and the side handrails don't have a good fit to the loco shell, so that they appear warped, even if they're not.

And by the way, Lionel (made in America) screwed up the mounting of the trucks on that first Pennsy version, so that the step assembly, which is screwed to the truck assembly, sticks outward from the length of the frame. I can't find it, but Lionel sent out a service bulletin concerning this factory assembly mistake.

Now, going back to the current cataloged versions: As with most Lionel products these days, you don't know what you're getting until you get it. BUT as cataloged, these 44 ton switcher have some the most intricate and nicest paint schemes of any of the previously offered versions. Especially since the never-changed raised outline casting on the shell of the locomotive side doors severely restricts the complexity of the decoration.

As far as Lionel having "to to do find something to do with the tooling," just be thankful Lionel offers these sorts of lower end products, which sell in quantities that dwarf the scale product lineup. Lionel has always maintained it is the starter set traditional product lineup that keeps them in business. Yet where are the clear majority of new tooling dollars going?

Lionel should have NEVER called these locos a 44 ton, since in size, they are closer in overall size to an 80 switcher. Even with modelers not being as picky in the 1950's as they are now, folks then certainly had to have noticed, this was a lot bigger than a real 44 ton switcher.

I call mine a "center cab switcher" which is certainly a more reasonable and descriptive name, even if not precisely prototypical.

Below are two I redid. The Conrail one has some of the raised side door outlines removed to better accommodate the decals. I've since removed the delrin handrails on the front and back of the Conrail version, filled in the holes, touched up the paint and replaced them with metal handrails like my NS version.

The Norfolk Southern one has all the raised side door detail removed, and replaced with styrene to "suggest" the side doors. Both of mine have new frames I made from layered styrene, to lower the overall height of the loco as compared to the sheet metal frame with has indentations where the trucks are mounted.

These originally were the Rock Island versions, made in 1993 and 29 years later, both are still running fine to this date. There are a good many far more expensive, high end engines that cannot make the same claim.

As for the original question by @MtnMan, yes as Allan Miller suggested, you might want to wait until these start appearing on dealer shelves. Or if you already run your layout conventionally with a transformer, you could consider one of the prior Lionel made DC can motored versions. Williams also made a clone of the Lionel postwar style with a single - though larger - DC can motor. And of course, there's the Lionel postwar versions.

what kind of motors will the 44 tonner have ?

i cancelled my order for the dash 8 out of fear of it having those tiny tier 4 motors

To the OP,

Whatever you get, make sure it has two can motors.  I have the Williams knock-off, with one motor.  It is about 10.5 inches long, not counting couplers, is heavy and blocky, and starts to slow down after running about 5 minutes or so with 10 heavy cars.   (I don't do switching, I run my switchers as road engines.)

It seems as if the only reason to buy the recent Lionel version is to get the Lionchief  features (although it will not run on conventional).

If Lionchief features are not that important to you, there are better 44 tonners out there in the conventional models.

Mannyrock

I have enjoyed the posts on GE 44 ton locomotives .

A real GE 44 ton locomotive is 28 feet long and a O scale engine should be 7 inches long.  The over sized Lionel 627 GE 44 ton engine is 10.5 inches in length.

A real GE 80 ton locomotive is 36 in 10 in and a O scale engine should be 9.2 inches in length.  Therefore, my Lionel 627 engine is now promoted to a GE 80 ton locomotive on my 027 toy train layout.  That was a cheap up grade and I solved the over size problem of the Lionel 627 GE 44 ton loco on my layout!

Charlie