Lionchief Engine losing power at random spots

Most likely your tether from the tender has a broken wire.

@ADCX Rob posted:

Most likely your tether from the tender has a broken wire.

I don't have the tender hooked up.  I believe it's just a speaker.

@fgnewton posted:

I don't have the tender hooked up.  I believe it's just a speaker.

Well, there's your answer. Hook up the tender!   ̶T̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶w̶i̶r̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶e̶t̶h̶e̶r̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶t̶w̶o̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶.̶

3 Wires - 2 for the speaker and 1 for the axle wiper to provide better chassis ground to loco

Picture of the underside of the engine? The pickups are probably losing contact with the center rail.

Dave

> Looks like Rob may have it.

@ADCX Rob posted:

Well, there's your answer. Hook up the tender!  There are four wires in the tether... two of them are for track power.

I wish it was that easy.  I had the tender on and it occurs with or without it.  The Tender does not supply power or even have a center rail pickup.  It's literally just the speaker.  The Engine usually works with or without it.

@Dtrainmaster posted:

Picture of the underside of the engine? The pickups are probably losing contact with the center rail.

Dave

> Looks like Rob may have it.

@fgnewton posted:

I had the tender on and it occurs with or without it.

I was thinking MTH on the four-wire tether, with the LionChief you are correct, it is just a speaker although the connector has 4 slots... but one of them is in fact for the axle wipers on the tender. The wires are fairly brittle, I replaced mine with superflex wire so I don't have to take it apart every two years.

@fgnewton posted:

I wish it was that easy.  I had the tender on and it occurs with or without it.  The Tender does not supply power or even have a center rail pickup.  It's literally just the speaker.  The Engine usually works with or without it.

While you are focussing on 3d rail, the return path through the outer wheels is the problem.

The LIonchief 0-8-0 chassis has traction tires on the rear axle wheel set, the 2 sets of blind drivers that often do not even touch the track, and then last, the front wheels with flanges is the one internally with the ground strap pickup. Couple that with a plastic frame, and you have very limited outer rail connection.

That's why in the 4 pin Lionchief steam drawbar system, there is 3 wires on 0-8-0s, the 3rd wire going to a pickup but one that is for the axles of the front tender truck.

Again, the 0-8-0 engine, it's biggest weakness that may not be first obvious- sure, they have 8 wheels and yet somehow very little actually making electrical contact. They heavily depend on an attached tender with a working "ground strap" pickup of the front truck axles.

Again the Lionchief 0-8-0 tenders specifically have 3 wires, 2 for speaker, 1 for that critical ground strap pickup from the truck of the tender. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...KS-48-0-8-0-TENDER-1

on the front truck of the tender

@fgnewton posted:

Lionchief Engine losing power at random spots.  I have cleaned the track and the wheels and pickup rollers.  When I move the engine side to side it loses power.  Should it move this much? (See attached video)

Set is 6-83984

#1 yes it will move that much. Normal wheel gauge to track tolerance.

#2 Losing power is because as explained, the Lionchief 0-8-0 engines only have 4 wheels with flanges, and 2 of them have traction tires. the blind flangeless wheels rarely touch the track. Also, the internal ground strap to the wheels and plastic frame contributes to limited wheel and outer rail electrical path.

#3 The tender yes, does not have a 3rd rail roller but DOES provided critical electrical path to the wheels and outer rails. Your specific set https://www.lionelsupport.com/...nder-Only-6918791T01

Part #3 below is the clip in pickup that specifically connects to the axles of the tender front truck outer rail connection and again, a 3 wire drawbar- 2 for speaker, one for this important outer rail pickup connection.

In the engine, notice the ground strap #21 only can touch 2 axles- the front 2 of the 4 axle set in the engine.

Again, notice part #13 is the engine side of the drawbar with 3 wires, 2 into a connector to the LIonchief board for speaker, and the lone single wire is this critical "ground" pickup from the tender for outer rail since the engine is so limited in actual wheels connected electrically to pickups.

@ADCX Rob posted:

it is just a speaker although the connector has 4 slots... but one of them is in fact for the axle wipers on the tender. The wires are fairly brittle, I replaced mine with superflex wire so I don't have to take it apart every two years.

@Vernon Barry posted:

..the Lionchief 0-8-0 tenders specifically have 3 wires, 2 for speaker, 1 for that critical ground strap pickup from the truck of the tender...

The axle wiper assembly is a 9050-150 snap-in unit without the center rail roller, mounted on the front tender truck.

Well, what we have here is a self inflicted wound.  You folks have set me straight.  Even when the tender was connected I had the connections blocked with electrical tape to mute the lionchief chirp.  Now that I know the tender wheels are needed, I only block one side of the connection letting - through.  Works great.

Thank you!