LionChief Plus Engines Video Taken at Lionel

Thanks very much for the video!

Paul - "Thanks" for sharing this informative vid...wish I could have been there.

Thx for the video. These locos were very strong to pull all these cars.

The Lionchief plus seems like a great addition. It looks to be like the MTH Imperial RK sets with PS3 and at a similar price.

Looks like it was a lot of fun.  And maybe my thoughts about LionChief+ will change.

Not sure I agree with his statement about a road map for growing in the hobby where nothing becomes obsolete/incompatible.  He is correct to a point, but who is going to want to pony up for a Legacy system if they have a sizable fleet of LionChief that the Legacy can't control, or who is going to want to have separate controllers for every locomotive?  That's the one thing I love about TMCC/Legacy, one remote to rule them all, to borrow the phrase.  Sure, I can see the one remote per locomotive thing for holiday setups or public displays, but not for permanent home layouts.

And how long before he delivers on his promise to invent trains that couple on curves? LOL.

Yes, thanks.

Thinking about Lion Chief Plus. I'm a PW and conventional guy but would possibly consider picking up a set. I like the option to run them conventionally. 

Thanks for the video. Does the steam whistle really sound like that in the video?

Well, I sure hope you're right!  I invested a fair amount of $ to date in purchasing four Thomas-related engines and sets (all with LionChief) that I hope to display at a local children's hospital during the 2014 holiday season.  It will be interesting to see how it all works out.  

I'm sure it'll be a hit Allan.

Maybe even literally as the kids run the trains into each other.  Kids love that.

Paul:

Thanks for taking the time to produce this video for our enjoyment. Always a pleasure to see Mike Reagan talking about new product.

1) I wouldn't consider TMCC/Legacy to be one remote to rule them all since they don't control DCS trains (except in conventional mode). One remote to rule them all  would be something like the DCC standard found in other scales. O gauge is still hobbled by two competing standards. This is what's keeping me from by either system. Hoping that Lionel going open source will change that. 

2) One remote per locomotive would probably be fine for many home layouts. Not all of us are going to have dozens of locomotives and huge basement layouts. I only have 4 engines right now and doubt I'll have many more than that. 

3) Multiple remotes is handy if you and your kids/friends each want to run a train.

On the whole the LionChief Plus is a pretty interesting addition to the line up.  

It is one remote since we are talking Lionel here.

Thanks for the video.  What was the interference in the background, sounded like someone talking while you were videoing.  The lionchief look like a winner.

I am very impressed with the slow speed of the Hudson, toward the end of the video.  That is excellent!   Some of the literature mentions Odyssey speed control - very impressive.

Also first time hearing about how the volume adjustment from the remote works.

And the gradual slowdown and reverse feature.

Really nice extra features on the LC+!

Paul, great video and very interesting to see how the new systems run along with the locomotives.  Mike Reagan is always an enjoyment to watch with his tutorials.

Steve, Lady and Tex

The area that Mike has for testing the new trains is on a 2nd floor area. Which is above the Lionel's archive area which is on the 1st floor. There is no wall separating it from the 1st floor area below.

And there was a tour of the Lionel's archive that started while we were up top.

Only very special people have a key to the archive area which is also the only way to get to Mike's special test layout area.

I like the idea of Lionchief and its marketing goal, but I sure hope in the future that Legacy will have some kind of upgrade to control the Lionchief engines. Each Lionchief has its own 'code' and it's just a matter of inputting the Lionchief code individually into Legacy; at that point I would certainly purchase more Lionchief engines.

I wonder what is meant by each engine has its own code.  Allan said in the post above that he has four Thomas engines with Lion Chief.  Does this mean that he gets a controller for each Thomas engine and that controller will only operate that particular Thomas or does it mean every Thomas controller will operate any Thomas Lion Chief engine?

The first option means that he will need a controller to run each Thomas.  The second option means that when he starts one up they all start up assuming they are on a powered track.

Also, it was unclear to me whether Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus are compatible.  I believe he said that Lion Chief runs on DC and that Lion Chief Plus runs on AC or DC.  Is Lion Chief only a DC system?

Joe 

Joe, Allen said four Thomas-related engines.  So I take that to mean four different Thomas-themed engines (Thomas, Percy, etc).  So he should have no problems, four controllers on different frequencies (or address codes in the data packets, depending how the signaling is implemented). 

Technically, it should be feasible to have a LionChief based attachment to connect to a Legacy base, to transmit LionChief signals to the LionChief locos, from the commands sent by the Legacy remote.   If the demand is there, it will happen.  I bet Jon already has it planned-out, if the marketing guys green-light the feature.   [This might also be the path to a single remote for multiple LC locos - based on a legacy remote with a LionChief attachment to the legacy base for transmitting to LC locos.   This would be a nice upgrade path that leads LionChief owners into Legacy.   My speculation of course.]

Yes, each of the Thomas engines I bought have their own color-matched controller (blue for Thomas, red for James, green for Percy, black for Diesel).  Each controller only operates its matching engine.  I plan to have two separate lines operating, and likely will operate only two trains at any one time, just to keep things simple.

For the display type of thing I have in mind, having four separate controllers poses no real problem because I want visitors (kids) to be able to run the trains.  If I was using these trains on my home layout (for example), that would be a different story.  I use two controllers on my home layout already--Legacy and DCS remotes--and that's the max I want to deal with, now or in the future.

For the most part, I use a CAB-1L to control my TMCC and Legacy locomotives, and the DCS remote to control my MTH trains.  I also can, of course, use the DCS Remote to control DCS, TMCC, and Legacy, and sometimes do that as well.  I much prefer the CAB-1L over the full Legacy's CAB-2 due to the former's much smaller and more convenient size, even though the CAB-1L does not offer all of the full Legacy's more advanced features (which I don't need or use anyway).

I'm inclined to doubt that Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus locos will be easily operable by the Legacy system.  We haven't been told, to my knowledge, what the technology being used is, but it is apparently radio frequency, much like radio control cars and airplanes. Legacy is radio frequency too, but the technologies and frequencies may be different.

I'm hoping that Lion Chief and LC Plus are using 2.4 G digital spread spectrum radio control which has taken over the airplane, boat and car industry.  With this technology, you can "bind" any compatible transmitter (handheld) to any model easily, thus leaving open the possibility of a Lion Chief controller that can be linked to any loco with the appropriate features.  That isn't being proposed now so I assume it's either not possible or not desired by Lionel.

All that said, these are simple command-like locos that are inexpensive (the least expensive remote locos in the industry by far) and easily used by children of all ages. They are compatible with command layouts and can be operated on layouts that are conventional if they have separate loops or electrical blocks.  Backward compatible if you will. A good thing.  Inexpensive is good too .

It's clear, to me at least ,  these are designed for hobbyists who don't want the expense or complexity of Legacy, but are compatible with layouts that use Legacy (or DCS for that matter). 

Both LionChief and LionChief Plus engines can run on BOTH DC or AC.

Jon

After watching Paul's video at the red carpet event I thought only the LionChief Plus could run on both AC or DC track power.  I might be wrong in what Mike R. said during the demo.

Steve, Lady and Tex

From Percy's Manual (RailChief version):

That should clarify things a bit for those who were uncertain about the AC/DC capability.

Thanks Allan.  Good to know I can use on my Legacy track voltage.

Steve, Lady and Tex

Here is the link to our page on Lionchief

http://nassauhobby.com/Pre-Ord...ef-Plus-Locomotives/

Thanks Charlie.

Steve, Lady and Tex

You must believe that when they set up Lionchief there is some type of compatability for Legacy in the future. I would have done it that way, makes sense economically and look at all the fishies you catch

Allan makes a good point that I'll slightly hijack for my own purposes in a moment.

First, thanks to paulp for taking and posting the video. Mike Reagan gave a very good presentation that explains where Lionel is going with the LionChief/LionChief Plus lines.

It appears the LionChief sets are a great entry level product that addresses many of the possible pitfalls to newcomers to toy trains, particularly parents with young children. 1) Lower price, making it more accessible; 2) ease of use - instead of scary wires and a transformer you have to try and figure out how to wire up, it has a power pack that plugs into the wall, and a jack that plugs into the track - just like just about all the other consumer electronic devices they own; and 3) a remote control that is simple and easy to use, particularly for young children.

That may be as far as some people may want to go with the hobby. They may buy some more track, or if they have more than one child, they may buy more engines and cars so all the children can run trains at the same time.

A separate use of LionChief trains fills a small niche -  a train for the small child who has parents in the train hobby that have a TMCC or Legacy layout. The child can operate his LionChief train on the layout alongside the parent's TMCC/Legacy trains.

LionChief Plus is the next step in the evolution of the hobby for some folks that like their LionChief engines and sets, but want to do more while keeping it simple and easy. The LionChief Plus engines provide more features (at a higher price) and Lionel is coming out with a more powerful power pack to provide the power for bigger trains on larger layouts.

Again, this may be as far as the hobbyist wants to go, or if they want to go further into the hobby, they can get into Legacy and scale equipment and the whole kit and kaboodle. The bonus is, they can still operate their LionChief and LionChief Plus locomotives on a Legacy layout.

Sounds like a very good plan and I hope it is successful for Lionel.

But, you know there was going to be a but, let's get back to the point Allan made about how people who are already in the hobby are less likely to want to have multiple remotes if they already have TMCC/Legacy command control. LionChief/LionChief Plus engines don't really have an effect on someone who runs scale equipment or Legacy equipment. So, it is kind of a moot point for people who enjoy that part of the hobby.

The area of the hobby it effects are those who operate traditional or semi-scale equipment in conventional or command control. There have been many posts over the last few years by hobbyists who want traditional size engines that are the next step up in power and robustness from starter set engines. Some want conventional and some want command control. Lionel used to produce these engines on a regular basis (command control with TMCC), but they have not been cataloged for a while.

The equipment Lionel is using for LionChief Plus engines are the engines many of us have been asking for, at least as far as the steam locomotives. To paraphrase Star Wars, "these are the locos we are looking for." But with a different operating system. I don't think the LionChief Plus diesels really meet the requirements of a "next step up" engine since they only have one motor. More power for longer trains are better provided by two motors. You'll notice in the video that the steam locomotives are pulling the long trains. I could be wrong, but I don't think it is coincidence the one motor diesels are not pulling the heavier loads.

The semi-scale steam locomotives Lionel selected for the LionChief Plus line were discussed a few months back when Lionel announced the LionChief Plus line. It was difficult to get a definitive answer, but it appears the Hudson and the Pacific are the nicer "baby" semi-scale locomotives that Lionel hasn't issued for quite a while. Having an interest in traditional size equipment, I copy and save posts off the forum on traditional size locomotives, and the Mikado Jr. locomotive is pretty highly regarded for that category of engine.

You can certainly argue that the LionChief Plus steam locomotives fill the needs of conventional operators for "next step up" locomotives since they can be operated as conventional engines, albeit how much more do they have to pay for the extra electronics that they aren't going to use. The speed control in conventional mode is a nice bonus, unless you like operating the transformer handles up and down hills.

The $64,000 question is what if they had produced the traditional size steam locomotives with ERR control and sound since it doesn't appear Lionel is producing TMCC controlled locomotives now? I wonder what the cost difference is between ERR control and sound versus LionChief Plus control and sound? Is it similar, or do the ERR products push the price out of the range hobbyists would be willing to pay?

Lionel has produced quite extensive catalogs this year, and I know they can't produce things for everyone every year. Since they have finally taken the molds out of storage for the "next step up" steamers, hopefully they are going to keep in mind that there are existing hobbyists who like the quality and expense range between starter sets and scale Legacy equipment, particularly those who operate command control and don't want to add more remotes to add more steam locomotives.