Lionel 2-6-4 Can Motor

I am pretty certain this is the same motor Lionel used in the starter set 4-4-2 small steam engines for decades,….see if you can verify tooth count based on this picture & part number from one of the 4-4-2 starter set motors,….I hope that helps….I believe the motor you’re inquiring about sits in side ways and drives a train of spur gears, …..no??.

Pat

Thanks Pat, I’ll check into it. Yes, it mounts sideways and drives a gear train similar to that of a 2037 locomotive.

I did a little more searching and found a parts diagram with a number for the motor.  It’s an 8606-103 motor, which I can’t find in stock anywhere.  It appears to be a flat sided can motor, so I don’t know if a round motor would work or not.  I’ll do a little more digging and see what I can find.

I have noticed that a lot of parts for the LTI stuff are no longer available, I could see that being a problem going forward.

First check with Bill @ S&W Parts Supply, …..he may be able to help you,…..like I mentioned before, seems I recall that motor being NLA for a lot longer than just recent, but the starter set motor worked,…..but don’t quote me on that yet,…..I remember a customer’s engine getting wadded up with cotton from a Christmas display and it stalled and cooked itself to death,……could you verify tooth count?…I wanna say it’s 9 tooth??…

Pat

I’ll take a look at the engine this evening and get the tooth count.  What’s happening is either a loose wire (hopefully) or a dead spot in the motor.  Engine stops randomly and will get going again with a tap on the boiler. This happens regardless of the E-unit switch position.  I had a 4-4-2 with the dead spot issue a while back, so I’m preparing for the worst case.  I’ll report back once I remove the shell and check everything over.

Thanks again!

@mlavender480 posted:

I’ll take a look at the engine this evening and get the tooth count.  What’s happening is either a loose wire (hopefully) or a dead spot in the motor.  Engine stops randomly and will get going again with a tap on the boiler. This happens regardless of the E-unit switch position.  I had a 4-4-2 with the dead spot issue a while back, so I’m preparing for the worst case.  I’ll report back once I remove the shell and check everything over.

Thanks again!

Look very very closely at the E unit wiring on the board,….I’ve fixed a blue million of these with cold a cold solder joint where the wires are soldered to the board,….same symptom you’re having,……a quick re-flow of the solder put the board back in business…..usually when I’d see a bad motor that would try to run, you’d get the blue flame coming out the vents ( a lot of arcing ) ……if you examine the soldered joints where the wires meet the board, look for one or maybe even a couple that look like miniature volcanos, the solder will have a defined hole where it’s not melted all the way to the wire or pin,…..I want to say the majority of what I’ve fixed were the motor lead wires coming off the board, and headed to the motor……it is the same board that’s used in the starter set steam 4-4-2 and possibly others,….E-103 ??…..I believe??.

Pat

This evening I took the engine apart and checked everything.  No bad solder joints that I could see, however I did find a loose terminal on one of the gear retainer screws, this wire goes to the reverse unit and I assume it’s the neutral/chassis ground for the E-unit. I tightened that, reassembled and ran the engine.  This time it ran well for a solid half hour, pulling a 6 car consist of O27 passenger cars.  It then started to stutter and stall again as before.  I’m not sure if that terminal worked loose again, or what.

The motor has a 10-tooth pinion gear, that round motor would probably work if that ends up being the problem.

@mlavender480 posted:

This evening I took the engine apart and checked everything.  No bad solder joints that I could see, however I did find a loose terminal on one of the gear retainer screws, this wire goes to the reverse unit and I assume it’s the neutral/chassis ground for the E-unit. I tightened that, reassembled and ran the engine.  This time it ran well for a solid half hour, pulling a 6 car consist of O27 passenger cars.  It then started to stutter and stall again as before.  I’m not sure if that terminal worked loose again, or what.

The motor has a 10-tooth pinion gear, that round motor would probably work if that ends up being the problem.

How long did it try & run before you messed around with the wiring/ terminal ring?….did you see a noticeable gain in reliability?…..if you’re unsure about those solder joints, but you’re handy with a fine tip iron, just reflow them all and eliminate that as a variable, ……it’s not always easy to spot a bad solder joint….also what happens when it starts to stutter & stall again?….does the headlight go out?…does it blink in rhythm with the stutter and then go out when it stalls? When it stalls, any humming or groaning coming from the motor?..…check your pick up rollers for continuity, check your ground wires, be sure the wheels are clean, and lubed.

Pat

Before I opened it up it would run maybe 10-15 minutes before cutting out, it ran a little over a half hour after.  The headlight stays on no matter what, so the engine is getting power all the time.  No sound at all from the motor when it stalls.  I’ll do another check later this week or over the weekend, might do what you said and reflow the solder joints anyway.  Thanks again for all the advice, I’m usually a pretty good troubleshooter but this one has me a little puzzled.  I hate intermittent problems!

Stranger things can happen, as a good buddy always tells me, ima victim,………so although it still might be a motor, it doesn’t sound like it if it ran for 30 minutes tugging a train…….do you have to repeat the same tap on the boiler to get it going again??…….you may be able to catch this in the act if you remove the shell, and could suspend the engine on a table or workbench, run it with some alligator clips, and when it stalls, carefully nudge each wire looking for a restart, or the tell tale arc of a poor connection….

Pat  

My Great Lakes Express 2-6-4 suffered the same issues a while back… can’t remember what the ultimate cause was, but I sent it off for repairs (can’t remember to whom) and it came back with a new reverse board (and possible motor — can’t tell) and never had the issue again.  I have the 18635 model as well but have never had issues… yet.  I do wonder if these types of units are destined to be shelf queens one day.

@Pre-War Steve posted:

My Great Lakes Express 2-6-4 suffered the same issues a while back… can’t remember what the ultimate cause was, but I sent it off for repairs (can’t remember to whom) and it came back with a new reverse board (and possible motor — can’t tell) and never had the issue again.  I have the 18635 model as well but have never had issues… yet.  I do wonder if these types of units are destined to be shelf queens one day.

I have the Great Lakes version as well and luckily it’s been trouble free so far.  I’ve said before that stuff from this era isn’t particularly well-made, there seems to be a lot of random issues and little to no parts availability.  It’s the era I grew up in but sadly I’m probably done buying it.  At least you can get parts for MPC.

Today I took the engine apart again, checked and reflowed a couple solder joints… don’t know if I messed up something on the board or if it was just going bad, but it would only go into neutral and reverse.  So I swapped in a reverse unit from a parts donor 4-4-2, and it seems to be fixed.  Ran for over an hour pulling its train with no problems.  There had to be something going on with the original E unit.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions!

Here it is pulling its NYC passenger consist. These engines are noisy buggers for a can motor locomotive!