Lionel 2024 pre-order approach?

Aside from price, other things to consider include shipping costs and whether or not a dealer will charge sales tax.  Some dealers have better deals with shippers (or don't use shipping as a profit item), and some don't charge for shipping if the item is over a certain dollar threshold.  Some dealers don't charge sales tax on out-of-state sales, leaving it up to the buyer to declare the purchase and pay the tax when filing their state taxes.

A few dealers require a deposit when a preorder is placed, but plenty don't.  While I understand why they do it, I'm not a fan of tying money up for months (or years) for a product that might end up not being produced.  And there's always the risk that the seller might not be in business when the item is produced.

IMO, best to find a dealer you like and give them repeat business.

Charles Ro has best prices usually, if it's something your worried about Lionel getting right, I'd goto a local dealer, so you can see it 1st before buying.  If you order online from some place far away it's more difficult to return things.

Rule #1 is do not put a deposit on anything.  If lionel delivers a rotten egg, you want no money tied up in it so you can walk away.

If you shop on just bottom dollar price, you need to be prepared to deal with whatever service/lack of service comes with it.  What you want is price + service, again, if lionel delivers a rotten egg or you get a DOA. You want a shop that can swap out a dud without having to deal with Lionel directly. Charles Ro, Trainworld, Mr. Muffin, there are others, but past experience says those 3 guys are all stand up when it comes to duds.

If you're at all nervous about what the final product may look like in the era of pastel colored locomotives and you don't "gotta have it", then the right way to play it is to just see what it looks like.  Somebody will have it in stock unless it's a real oddball roadname.

@Boilermaker1 posted:

Rule #1 is do not put a deposit on anything.  If lionel delivers a rotten egg, you want no money tied up in it so you can walk away.

If you shop on just bottom dollar price, you need to be prepared to deal with whatever service/lack of service comes with it.  What you want is price + service, again, if lionel delivers a rotten egg or you get a DOA. You want a shop that can swap out a dud without having to deal with Lionel directly. Charles Ro, Trainworld, Mr. Muffin, there are others, but past experience says those 3 guys are all stand up when it comes to duds.

If you're at all nervous about what the final product may look like in the era of pastel colored locomotives and you don't "gotta have it", then the right way to play it is to just see what it looks like.  Somebody will have it in stock unless it's a real oddball roadname.

I’d drink to that!!…..well said!!!!

Pat

Budget yourself, only go for those things you really want. Most items will come around again and that is something to consider. A good example of this is NPR #765. It has been run a bunch of times, and of course will be again. So if you were looking at that and the Polar Express but could only afford one, I'd say go for the Polar Express. The only other thing to consider is hope for the best, expect the worst when things are delivered. Granted that may not always be the case, but if you know what hasn't had issues in the past, that would also be something to consider. See what people are at the hold the phone on and what they say should be okay. I'd say that the Berkshire's would be something I wouldn't worry about having issues with.

Thanks for the replies so far. I've only looked at well known retailers (online or local), but even so, the pre-order prices vary enough to shop around. 

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Budget yourself, only go for those things you really want. Most items will come around again and that is something to consider. A good example of this is NPR #765. It has been run a bunch of times, and of course will be again. So if you were looking at that and the Polar Express but could only afford one, I'd say go for the Polar Express. The only other thing to consider is hope for the best, expect the worst when things are delivered. Granted that may not always be the case, but if you know what hasn't had issues in the past, that would also be something to consider. See what people are at the hold the phone on and what they say should be okay. I'd say that the Berkshire's would be something I wouldn't worry about having issues with.

And I’d agree with that, …..that Berkshire platform is a proven performer……I can’t speak for the electronics, the platform is fairly well built,….

Pat

@Boilermaker1 posted:

Rule #1 is do not put a deposit on anything.  If lionel delivers a rotten egg, you want no money tied up in it so you can walk away.

If you shop on just bottom dollar price, you need to be prepared to deal with whatever service/lack of service comes with it.  What you want is price + service, again, if lionel delivers a rotten egg or you get a DOA. You want a shop that can swap out a dud without having to deal with Lionel directly. Charles Ro, Trainworld, Mr. Muffin, there are others, but past experience says those 3 guys are all stand up when it comes to duds.

If you're at all nervous about what the final product may look like in the era of pastel colored locomotives and you don't "gotta have it", then the right way to play it is to just see what it looks like.  Somebody will have it in stock unless it's a real oddball roadname.

Muffin doesn't swap duds in my experience. He directed me to Lionel even though they had multiple left. Really soured me when it comes to buying anything powered from them. I'll only order Atlas rolling stock from them now

Nicholas Smith and Ro have been wonderful about swapping defective items.

I’ll give an endorsement to Nassau Hobby for preorders.  I preordered a Dreyfuss from them from last year’s catalog.  It arrived with an issue in the Legacy control system and after working with Lionel support, they stated the locomotive would need to be shipped in for a warranty repair.  When I contacted Nassau with that info, they shipped out a replacement that night, no questions asked.  I would not hesitate to preorder/order from them again in the future.

My approach for the 2024 catalog is to stick with what I already own and have it upgraded/converted. Now, more than ever, I'm convinced that upgrading 20-and-30-year-old conventional locos is a much better value than buying anything coming from China today.

@Jimz posted:

I’ll give an endorsement to Nassau Hobby for preorders.  I preordered a Dreyfuss from them from last year’s catalog.  It arrived with an issue in the Legacy control system and after working with Lionel support, they stated the locomotive would need to be shipped in for a warranty repair.  When I contacted Nassau with that info, they shipped out a replacement that night, no questions asked.  I would not hesitate to preorder/order from them again in the future.

I’ll be happy to go the other way with them…. Charged an upfront 10% deposit on a Dreyfuss and after seeing pics/ videos online I informed them that that was NOT what I ordered and didn’t want the engine.  Hadn’t shipped yet…. They would not refund my deposit (which I understand as that is their policy - my lesson learned for sure).  However, they wouldn’t even do me the courtesy of allowing me to apply that money towards another item.  Suggested it “wasn’t transferable”.  I’m sure they’ll be able to sell the engine so they just pocket my $140.  Not the way to treat anyone you’d hope to be a repeat customer as I see it.  Best of luck to them!  

No issues with Ro who accepted my passenger cars back and provided a full refund.  No questions asked!!  Who you buy from is as important as what you buy!!

I have had nothing but great experiences with Charles Ro, just for the record, including very good discounts and service on the rare occasion that a product was defective.  No deposits on preorders either.

Sommerfeld's outside Milwaukee has never let down. Jack and Matt are some of the best to deal with.

I've preordered from recent catalogs from Muffins, Trainworld, and Charles Ro.  Partially due to prices, partially to try each one.

Of the 3, Muffins has had the best customer service, and will likely get my future business unless there are significant price differences.  I like that Muffins sends an invoice that you then go pay, versus TW and Ro who just charge the card on file.  It helps when you're waiting on a pay check or need to move money from savings into a checking account before finalizing the purchase.

I also had issues with TW when I needed to cancel a preorder before the product had arrived.  I knew a preordered locomotive was due in about a month, and I was no longer able to afford it due to unforeseen expenses.  I had to call 3 separate times over the course of 2 weeks before the order was finally canceled, each time they told me it had been canceled, but I never got confirmation and it remained on my account.  Finally after the 3rd time it showed as canceled.  I fortunately have not needed to cancel an order with Muffins or Ro, but it left a bad taste in my mouth about TW.

Any experience with E-Z Catch Train Shop.  

@PSM posted:

I like that Muffins sends an invoice that you then go pay, versus TW and Ro who just charge the card on file.  It helps when you're waiting on a pay check or need to move money from savings into a checking account before finalizing the purchase.

Ro will let you pay however you like, even mail in a check. No deposit required.

I phone in my order and they send me an invoice by email when it's in. Then I pickup the phone and pay how I choose.

@RickO posted:

Ro will let you pay however you like, even mail in a check. No deposit required.

I phone in my order and they send me an invoice by email when it's in. Then I pickup the phone and pay how I choose.

Hmm did not know that

@Alabama Joe posted:

Any experience with E-Z Catch Train Shop.  

I have previously ordered from them and have also pre-ordered with them for other items (MTH stuff). Very friendly and offer reasonable shipping prices.

Charles Ro is excellent.  I am a long time customer.  They double box any carton packaged item for me.  Are also good with replacements when those flimsy orange Lionel boxes arrived creased or crushed.  TrainWorld is great too and has really become a customer focused mail order company over the past 15 years.    I enjoy Mr Muffins exclusives as well.  He takes great care in picking interesting projects. 

@Mike W. posted:

Charles Ro is excellent.  I am a long time customer.  They double box any carton packaged item for me.  Are also good with replacements when those flimsy orange Lionel boxes arrived creased or crushed.  TrainWorld is great too and has really become a customer focused mail order company over the past 15 years.    I enjoy Mr Muffins exclusives as well.  He takes great care in picking interesting projects.

Does Charles Ro double box every Legacy or VisionLine, or just because you requested?      Do they charge tax?

@Alabama Joe posted:

Does Charles Ro double box every Legacy or VisionLine, or just because you requested?      Do they charge tax?

Charles Ro will double box an item for a $25 fee.

@Alabama Joe posted:

Charles Ro will double box an item for a $25 fee.

Question is this an option when pre-ordering or is this done once the product is in, you have this option?

Thanks!

Charles Ro and Train World have gotten my pre-orders for years. No deposit required, competitive pricing, and good service. Items packaged well.

PREORDER

I preordered through my local shop, Fred’s Train Shop   I give him routine business

PACKAGING
TrainWorld double boxed my Mikado standard practice.  (Not my request/ no extra charge).  Lionel orange inside Lionel Chinese cardboard inside double sized cardboard box with stuffing.  Very well protected.

@Hannibal-St Joseph RR posted:

PREORDER

I preordered through my local shop, Fred’s Train Shop   I give him routine business

PACKAGING
TrainWorld double boxed my Micado standard practice.  (Not my request/ no extra charge).  Lionel orange inside Lionel Chinese cardboard inside double sized cardboard box with stuffing.  Very well protected.

That’s nice to hear the double boxing was standard.  

I just got off the phone with them pricing 5 legacy engines in the 2024 catalog , perhaps they changed their process or the guy on the phone was cranky, when I asked he said for an additional $25 each they would double box

Charles Ro didn't tax my out of state purchases. I just preordered a couple of PA Lines Boxcars from the TCA store. They didn’t charge me for shipping or sales tax. I was pleasantly surprised.

Those cars are probably the only preorder for me at this time. I’ll wait and see what’s available from this catalog at York in October. I purchased a camelback that was shown in the  2023 Big Book in York last October. I may have payed a few dollars more (I doubt it) but it was worth it to be able to examine the engine before I bought it.

@David_NJ posted:

This is the first catalog since I recently got into the hobby, and wanted to know how folks handle their pre-orders?

I'm sure some folks always order from 1 retailer (online or brick & mortar) while others order from wherever they find the lowest pre-order price. I have seen some material differences in pre-order prices from retailers ($30-50+) and when ordering a few items worth a couple thousand dollars, the difference is enough to make it worth shopping around.

If it's not against the rules, what are some of the retailers you have found the best pre-order prices?

- David

Charles Ro has the best prices anywhere, preorder or not, no out of state sales tax, and shipping charges are a flat rate based on order value. Sales tax where I live is a big one because state and local sales tax comes to almost 10%. So, off the top of my head if the total order value is $1000 or more then the shipping charge is $40. Below $1000 the shipping charge goes down incrementally in a tiered system. You can read the tables on their web site. Also they will ship items from an order as they come in and then they will charge an extra $10 for each shipment. Also another big thing, unlike some dealers, Charles Ro does not take a down payment on preorders. You pay when it ships to you.

They are taking preorders on the current Lionel 2024 catalog up to Feb 24. It does nothing for you to order early from anyone. Take you time and think about what you want. Enter the order at the next to last day to be safe. Also if you order piecemeal that's all separate orders with separate shipping. If you wanted to add something to an order you would have to call and ask for Butch if he doesn't answer the phone so he can go into the order system and attach the item to an existing order to save you money. I have ordered a lot of stuff from them and they always come through without a scratch, well boxed. Always boxed over the Lionel shipping box.

Often after a preorder period expires their regular order price is about as good as many dealers preorder prices. There are a lot of good dealers out there and I'm sorry but this stuff is expensive and money talks the loudest.

A lot of people report that they are a little rude seeming or cranky on the phone, and at times they are. But they are New Englanders from the blue collar town of Malden Massachusetts and that's just the way they are and they don't mean it. So just keep a stiff upper lip, be polite and remember you are saving a lot of money. I have no affiliation with this company. I am just reporting my customer experience.

@Surefire posted:

Muffin doesn't swap duds in my experience. He directed me to Lionel even though they had multiple left. Really soured me when it comes to buying anything powered from them. I'll only order Atlas rolling stock from them now

Nicholas Smith and Ro have been wonderful about swapping defective items.

Another reason I dont buy from Muffin

@Alabama Joe posted:

Charles Ro will double box an item for a $25 fee.

Yes they charge for double box.  But once if you order multiple items so each additional items ships for little cost and is double boxed.  I want perfect boxes so its worth it.  I collect the full story surrounding the train.

@vrf201 posted:

Question is this an option when pre-ordering or is this done once the product is in, you have this option?

Thanks!

Note it on the order when placing order on the website.  "Double box items that ship in a master carton."

Charles Ro's staff is super friendly on the phone.  They are often just busy.  Charlie will personally thank me for my orders since 1991 if he answers.  They know the names of frequent purchasers (I usually order something from each catalog).  The ladies and a guy named Butch will answer some calls and are also friendly.   Don't forget to order their cool 50th Ann Lionel Made IN USA Charles Ro Boxcar.

@Mike W. posted:

Note it on the order when placing order on the website.  "Double box items that ship in a master carton."

Thanks for the info!

@Surefire posted:

Muffin doesn't swap duds in my experience. He directed me to Lionel even though they had multiple left. Really soured me when it comes to buying anything powered from them. I'll only order Atlas rolling stock from them now

Nicholas Smith and Ro have been wonderful about swapping defective items.

I had a "swap a dud" experience with Muffin once. It involved a small cosmetic defect in a Lionel Legacy Santa Fe F3 (don't recall which unit). Took a little while to get it, maybe 10 days, but he replaced my defective engine without issue.

In some cases, depending on inventory, dealers may go back to Lionel to get a replacement, and then ship it to the customer after the defective unit is returned. The mega dealers with large inventories may not have this issue as much.

For grins…..   pricing from several bigger Hobby Shops

lionel 2024 pre-order

2431530  Berkshire
$1529

$1419

$1409

$1400

Do your homework.

TrainWorld provides excellent service and the double box option as well.  Both TrainWorld and Charles Ro have been a part of my train collecting life for a long time now.

I do all of my pre-ordering from Charles Ro. I started because of the prices but have stayed because of the service. They've always been great about swapping damaged items, whether from the factory or from shipping.

If you order a powered item from Mr. Muffins, make sure to take advantage of the free inspection service. If you don't mind the item taken out of the box, they will inspect it, and if you ask they will test run it for you. It doesn't help with shipping problems, but at least you don't have to deal with the hassle of sending an item back.

Thanks again for everyone's input. I created a simple spreadsheet of the items I was considering and the prices from various online retailers that offered them as pre-order. The pricing here is just the pre-order price and doesn't factor in any shipping costs, taxes if applicable, your past purchase/post purchase experience, etc. There are additional retailers, but I only included those where I could get the prices from their website.

List price is what I got from Lionel's site. The Best price column was the cheapest price offered. The prices in red highlight which retailer had the lowest pre-order price. There is a difference that depending on your situation, warrants shopping around. I believe most of us will buy what we want or what our budget allows and with a difference of a couple hundred dollars for the list below, you might be able to get another item you might not have been able to justify.

Click the attachment shown after the post to open up a larger/clearer image of what I captured.

You will like Nicholas Smith , Charles Ro, Trainworld and Mario Trains

Forgot a few Gryzinski, Brad's , EZ Catch, East Side Trains ( West Coast )  and Pat's

They all have their good points