For those of you who have received this car, does the “snow” on the roof have a thickness or texture? I’m thinking of getting one and painting the roof black to match the first release of the PolEx scale passenger cars. I would appreciate a close up picture of the roof if anyone is willing to post one.
Many thanks in advance.
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The snow is just paint. But just so you’re aware the colors do not exactly match the other PE cars for some reason.
Haven't opened mine yet, but that color match 
EDIT: Went and opened. Don't think it's QUITE as bad a paint match as the RPO, but close.
I emailed Lionel. @EricTrainMan, if you'd like a better paint match, I'd suggest emailing Lionel and Dave Olson. I just did so. Last time they had issues on paint matches with the RPO they made it right.
Thanks, Eric. Great review. Wow. The roof is the least of the issues. I had the RPO you mentioned. I hated it. It stayed boxed under the table for two years until they made new shells. I’ll sit this one out until they announce a fix for the paint problem. The crazy part is the mismatched paint looks to be the exact shade of the RPO. How they got it wrong again after “fixing” the issue is disappointing.
By the way, I subscribed to your channel. Looks like fun.
Thanks again.
You've got to be kidding me. The color match is that far off!!!
I did reach out to Lionel just to let them know but heard from customer service they have no plans to fix it. I wish the color matched, but it’s a fun car regardless
@EricTrainMan posted:I did reach out to Lionel just to let them know but heard from customer service they have no plans to fix it.
This, to me, is unacceptable in regard to a car that was marketed as an add-on to previous sets. If they don’t intend to paint it to match what they’ve previously sold us, fine, but make that known up front. If they do intend it to match, but simply screw it up in production, then stand by it and fix it.
@Rider Sandman posted:For those of you who have received this car, does the “snow” on the roof have a thickness or texture? I’m thinking of getting one and painting the roof black to match the first release of the PolEx scale passenger cars. I would appreciate a close up picture of the roof if anyone is willing to post one.
Many thanks in advance.
Fyi, chances are good Lionel would come out with the black roofed car in the near future, esp if this car sells out.
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:Fyi, chances are good Lionel would come out with the black roofed car in the near future, esp if this car sells out.
Maybe they could use a black roof release as a justification to rerun the shells and fix the paint on the snow roof cars. I won’t hold my breath, but you never know. It seems like a niche car that won’t come back around very often, so my guess is it’s years away, if ever.
Lionel just emailed back, said no official decision has been made on correcting the colors
I’m all about the Polar Express but if Lionel isn't going to fix the colors the one I ordered is going back. I dealt with the RPO car emailing Lionel for 2 years until they finally made it right. Thank you for that Lionel.
I‘m not mad but disappointed. This is small potatoes to get me mad anymore. Just send it back and move on. I just don’t understand how this happens so much.
I’ll wait for the official word. Hopefully before the return deadline is up.
@MartyE, did you reach out as well seeking a correction?
I'm just not willing to accept this. Like you, more disappointment than anger. I'm not going to keep items that have these issues, though.
I had my dealer ship mine. I will deal with Lionel directly if need be. I will contact them again so Howard should expect my email
I am counting on Lionel to do the right thing. Nuff said.
I hope it works out, Marty. I think this time might be different. In the case of the botched RPO, Lionel had just bought the RPO tooling and planned several releases of it in multiple road names over the course of a few years. So, plugging the corrected PolEx RPO into the schedule was doable since they were rerunning the car anyway. I’m not sure that will be the case with the Vision Line horse car. I would be surprised if a rerun of such a niche car is planned anytime soon. So, making new shells really would be a custom build outside of a planned production run and I suspect that would be very expensive. I hope I’m wrong for the sake of everyone who bought one (which would also have included me had they offered a black roof version), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Lionel ultimately says “they are what they are - keep it or return it, but no new shells.” Again, I hope I’m wrong. Good luck.
Some one should ask on Trainland’s show tonight. I’ll be on the road.
Someone should ask Lionel at York.
Ooops. They already told us how important we were as a large segment of their customer base by no showing.
So I’ll chalk it up to my previous analogy to the old SNL skit. We don’t care. We’re the phone company. We don’t have to.
@VADarthDad posted:Someone should ask Lionel at York.
Ooops. They already told us how important we were as a large segment of their customer base by no showing.
So I’ll chalk it up to my previous analogy to the old SNL skit. We don’t care. We’re the phone company. We don’t have to.
Are we correct to assume that you'll never buy anything from Lionel again as a result of this?
Mike
Following up on this again, I called Charles Ro to process a return on mine since Lionel had given no answer.
In talking to Ro, they say they're also communicating with Lionel regarding this, and that if the issue is paint-related on a return, they'd suggest holding off a bit until Lionel comes to some conclusion here. They said if Lionel won't correct it, they'll honor returns.
I noted the color difference between the recent Reindeer Car and previous O-scale PE cars from Lionel (both black and white roofed versions in first picture) and called and sent an e-mail to Lionel Customer Service today. They gave me the same answer as others have reported. Then, just to be sure, I re-opened my PE Acela set for a grand comparison of PE scale items from Lionel. 2nd picture shows the PE Acela car, with Reindeer car and a white-roofed scale car. The Acela cars (and engines) are very close in hue to the Reindeer car; and the former O-scale cars are a deeper shade of blue, as is the PE Bipolar engine. Personally, I prefer the darker blue color. I had checked my Acela set when I first received it earlier this year, though since my layout is undergoing mods I packed it back up. Something told me it appeared too light back then, but I didn't follow through.
@Paul Kallus, you're right, very similar to the Acela. The only thing I'd note with that, at least the Acela consist is all matching and runs together vs the Reindeer car that is supposed to run with the prior scale cars.
Mine has been shipped from my dealer. Once I get it I will comment more and take appropriate action. I won't burden my dealer with this issue if at all possible as I already have more than a few times with the other returns. I'll deal directly with Lionel unless they give me no choice.
Incidentally I'm pretty amazed how many PE RPO cars are still out there with the incorrect paint. I seen at least 3 at York and one was in a popular Scranton, PA based dealer.
@Andrew B. thanks for the information. Hopefully we can get some satisfaction. It appears at least to me it's slightly better than what the RPO cars were.
@MartyE posted:"I’m all about the Polar Express but if Lionel isn't going to fix the colors the one I ordered is going back. I dealt with the RPO car emailing Lionel for 2 years until they finally made it right. Thank you for that Lionel.
I‘m not mad but disappointed. This is small potatoes to get me mad anymore. Just send it back and move on. I just don’t understand how this happens so much."
How does this continue to happen there?
@BobbyD posted:How does this continue to happen there?
Your guess is as good as mine. You are, or should be using the Pantone color system, to set the colors for the factory. This should ensure no matter which factory paints what it should match. From what I can tell, Lionel has a problem where the color is usually a lighter shade. I've never seen it darker. The N&W cars, Polar Cars, etc. Always a lighter , pastel like color than what it is supposed to be. One would figure after the first few issues some one would verify all is correct with the color system at all factories. If nothing else are the production samples being looked at and compared?
We all can speculate but it's really up to Lionel to figure out what the issue is and how to correct it.
@MartyE posted:Your guess is as good as mine. You are, or should be using the Pantone color system, to set the colors for the factory. This should ensure no matter which factory paints what it should match. From what I can tell, Lionel has a problem where the color is usually a lighter shade. I've never seen it darker. The N&W cars, Polar Cars, etc. Always a lighter , pastel like color than what it is supposed to be. One would figure after the first few issues some one would verify all is correct with the color system at all factories. If nothing else are the production samples being looked at and compared?
We all can speculate but it's really up to Lionel to figure out what the issue is and how to correct it.
Perhaps this is the entire problem. Pantone color collections do tend to be more on the pastel side and designed for publications in print. Once upon a time I thought using Pantone would help Lionel. I was wrong it isn't helping them at all! Truth is railroad colors are richer and deeper and really need to be referenced back to a color chip or tile. This is how MTH does things using Samhongsa chips and it works pretty darn good.
To be entirely honest, whoever is the person at Lionel that has allowed these paint errors to continue occuring should be removed from that position. Hobbysists such as myself are spending considerably less money with Lionel due to this problem. Perhaps a fresh person might have some perspective to remedy a problem that has plagued Lionel for far too long.
I surmise my late "catch" of the lighter and inconsistent blue color on the PE Acela was not brought up before, or was it? Did anyone raise this issue with Lionel? Honestly, with my work and family demands my hobby time has shrunk, and I am finding it more challenging than ever to keep up with just about everything, except eating chocolate candy 
and drinking Cold Brew Yagermeister 
I have observed we're living in the time of the "project manager checklist" mentality, whereby people do the minimum, check a box, and move on to the next item. I cannot claim this is the issue at Lionel; but it seems they need some hands-on creative folks who care more about product quality control.
@Paul Kallus posted:I have observed we're living in the time of the "project manager checklist" mentality, whereby people do the minimum, check a box, and move on to the next item. I cannot claim this is the issue at Lionel; but it seems they need some hands-on creative folks who care more about product quality control.
@MichRR714 posted:To be entirely honest, whoever is the person at Lionel that has allowed these paint errors to continue occuring should be removed from that position. Hobbysists such as myself are spending considerably less money with Lionel due to this problem. Perhaps a fresh person might have some perspective to remedy a problem that has plagued Lionel for far too long.
Paul, Charlie,
You certainly have a right to your opinion, whether it's consistent with the spirit of this forum or not, but ...
Let's blame the problem, whatever it is, on "modern" people. How about young people while you're at it?. Anybody else in the supply and manufacturing chain that you'd like to chastise with no direct proof? How about specific nationalities?
Why do we have to blame it on anyone? Or finally after many years of this frustration ask that someone be fired?
We're all hobbyists. We all have taken on a hobby, this hobby specifically, to relax. When you can no longer relax, and the evidence is strong here that you can't because you're blaming people and seeking to get someone fired, then it's no longer relaxing.
Maybe it's time to walk away?
Mike
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Let's blame the problem, whatever it is, on "modern" people. How about young people while you're at it?. Anybody else in the supply and manufacturing chain that you'd like to chastise with no direct proof? How about specific nationalities?
Why do we have to blame it on anyone? Or finally after many years of this frustration ask that someone be fired?
What on earth are you talking about? There was no mention of specifics or pointing a finger at anyone specifically in what I posted! I have no idea who is responsible for these matters at Lionel.
Let's get real though, in my business continued lack of performance gets you shown the door. I suspect that most business operate similarly.
@MichRR714 posted:To be entirely honest, whoever is the person at Lionel that has allowed these paint errors to continue occuring should be removed from that position. Hobbysists such as myself are spending considerably less money with Lionel due to this problem. Perhaps a fresh person might have some perspective to remedy a problem that has plagued Lionel for far too long.
Charlie,
If not fired, then demoted. If not demoted, then pushed aside. If not pushed aside then, reassigned to something else than can be messed up. How does this fix the problem?
(Actually my point was about relaxing instead of escalating.)
Mike
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Charlie,
If not fired, then demoted. If not demoted, then pushed aside. If not pushed aside then, reassigned to something else than can be messed up. How does this fix the problem?
Mike
How would you fix the problem Mike?
Mellow Hudson Mike, whatever you're smoking pass it around 
These aren't dollar store toys. They're advertised as scale models, with corresponding prices. Whatever the cause of these gaffes, I stand by comment that QC is much needed. I am not going to lose sleep over the colors, though; doesn't affect my enjoyment of the hobby.
I am struggling to understand how this color problem continues year after year.
I wonder if anyone from Lionel inspects preproduction samples of the models prior to them going into production?
Has anyone heard back from Lionel about the possibility of new shells for these cars?
@Rider Sandman I followed up on my initial inquiry. No reply yet. They'll be getting another email if I don't get a reply by end of week.
Andrew, your point on accessory cars vs. Acela set is spot on, however, and I may be wrong, though my gut feeling is that Lionel will not issue new shells for this run of Reindeer cars. A precedent was set, albeit a wrong one, with the PE Acela issued earlier this year in the lighter shade of blue, and evidently no issues were raised, at least none that I read on this forum.
My question is...Why didn't Lionel make the PE Reindeer car as a matching heavyweight car...hmmm?
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