Hi,
Does anyone have any info on what cars originally came with a black 289e set?
Thanks for any help.
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Hello,
The 289E was an uncatalogued locomotive and set offered in 1936 and 1937
289E Locomotive
1688T Tender
1703 Head End Car
1702 Observation
1701 Coach
To all outward appearances the 289E is the same locomotive as the 1689 Commodore Vanderbilt which was cataloged in 1936 and 1937.
The difference is that the 289E was designed for O gauge track while the 1689 had a smaller motor and smaller drivers for operation on 027 track. The uncatalogued 289E and the cataloged 1689 came in gray in 1936 and black in 1937.
The cars in the set with the 289E were surplus pieces form the 1071E Lionel Jr. streamliner set that ran from 1935 to 1937. To make the uncatalogued set Lionel took the 1702 observation car from the junior set reversed it, and installed a hook coupler to connect it to the 1688T tender. Thus a Head End Car was created out of the old observation car They designated the new car 1703 while an unchanged 1702 observation car and a 1701 coach completed the set.
The above information is from Lionel a collectors Guide and History ( prewar O gauge) by Tom McComas and James Tuohy. I highly recommend this book
Hope this is helpful to you
Enjoy 
Frank
According to Dave McEntarfers' Lionel Trains 1901-1942 Prewar Sets book the black 289E came only with a 1588W or 1689W tender and 804, 809, 831, 807 cars. Outfit numbers 6504E, 6504W and 6544. Only the gunmetal version came with passenger cars.
Ron M
Thanks for all the info!...I will be sure to pickup those books.
Pappy,
Neither Greenberg's Vol. II Lionel Trains 1901-1942 0 and 00 Gauges 2nd Ed. 2001 nor Doyle's Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1900-1942 offer any info regarding the promotional outfits this loco as offered in.
Dave McE personally saw and documented or had factory printed documents that listed the items in that particular outfit. I was able to furnish Dave with material for his book from the files at the Toy Train Reference Library.
Are you aware that Lionel packaged and sold their locomotives with track as 'Outfits' until the mid '20s.
Ron M
Lionel still used the term "Outfits" in the Postwar period as well.
Like I found more info that might be intereststing to this conversation.
I'm gona quote the info from another forum posting:
---------------------------------------------
quotting:
I believe that the information in "Lionel A Collectors Guide and History"( prewar O gauge) by Tom McComas and James Tuohy is a typo.
Instead of 1689W, someone mistakenly listed it as a 1688W.
It's also possible that the 1689W stamping was blurred or quite vague and appeared to be 1688W. That has happened.
In the Tom McComas and James Tuohy reference (page 28), they picture a Lionel 1684 locomotive with a black 1689W whistling tender.
This tender has "Lionel Lines" ink stamped in white on both sides.
The next photo shows the 289e with (the possibly typo) black 1688W tender with "Lionel Lines" printed on a metal attached plate.
The very next photo shows a grey 1668 locomotive and matching grey 1689W tender.
But, the next photo (and this is important) shows a Lionel 229 locomotive with a black 1689w tender with the printed "Lionel Lines" attached metal plate.
It is my belief that the 289e set came with a black 1689W whistling tender with the "Lionel Lines" metal plate attachment.... not pad printed "Lionel Lines".
To my knowledge, though I may be wrong, a Lionel 1688W tender has never been photographed or authenticated.
I would like to be proven wrong, as I have been looking for one for over 15 years.
My fingertips are raw for the hundreds (if not thousands) of times I've picked up a similar looking tender with 1689W stamped on the bottom.
And, yes, if I do eventually find one, I will request a carbon dating test on the paint to determine its authenticity before purchasing it.
On the other hand, this may have been a deliberate typo on behalf of Tom McComas and James Tuohy to trap unsuspecting plagiarizers of their work, as have many other authors of technical or reference books for decades.
An identical method was used by Ambrose-Bauer in their "Greenburg's Guide to Lionel Trains" when they sued the TCA and Kalmbach Publishing (Classic Toy Trains), the publisher of David Doyle's "Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1945-1969".
Ambrose-Bauer sited in court several "red flags" (i.e. false information/descriptions) regarding Lionel trains that showed up in David Doyle's book.
All parties eventually settled out of court.
But, that raises the question: Can you sue the author for deliberately publishing false information in a reference guide that users believe is "The God's Truth" ?
Especially if someone deliberately duplicated an item, knowing it was false based on an authoritative publication, and sold it (no matter what sum) to a purchaser that was using that publication to make the purchase. The word "fraud" comes to mind. Not just to the seller, but also the author that deliberately published false, misleading or absent information.
What if a major model train magazine published false information regarding a product review of a particular train manufacturers product?
Or, simply neglected to mention one or several flaws in the design that they actually observed and experienced but did not reveal to their readership?
Fee, fi, fo fum. I smell the blood of a very damaging lawsuit.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RIKI, I realize this an old thread, but I have done a lot of research of Lionel Torpedoes, and specifically the 1688/1688E locos. I also have tried to identify what "0" gauge motor they used in the 289E, without success of the exact one used. To the question of the existence of a 1688W tender, YES emphatically it did exist, with a legitimate box stamped with 1688W. It was part of "Uncatalogued Set No. 6208W", that sold on eBay this last March. Do a search using 'Lionel 6208W' in the advanced search of sold items. You will see the BOX well marked!!
There is another 6208W set for sale, that lists a 1689W tender, and not a 1688W, from a well known seller, & collector. I have contacted him with questions regarding the tender and the BOX as it is marked.
The books, all have typos, no matter which one you check. I have all the ones mentioned in the previous responses to this thread, and have checked, and double checked each with varying info, too long to mention. Your personal email isn't in your profile, so this was the next best way to respond.
TeleDoc posted:RIKI, I realize this an old thread, but I have done a lot of research of Lionel Torpedoes, and specifically the 1688/1688E locos. I also have tried to identify what "0" gauge motor they used in the 289E, without success of the exact one used. To the question of the existence of a 1688W tender, YES emphatically it did exist, with a legitimate box stamped with 1688W. It was part of "Uncatalogued Set No. 6208W", that sold on eBay this last March. Do a search using 'Lionel 6208W' in the advanced search of sold items. You will see the BOX well marked!!
There is another 6208W set for sale, that lists a 1689W tender, and not a 1688W, from a well known seller, & collector. I have contacted him with questions regarding the tender and the BOX as it is marked.
The books, all have typos, no matter which one you check. I have all the ones mentioned in the previous responses to this thread, and have checked, and double checked each with varying info, too long to mention. Your personal email isn't in your profile, so this was the next best way to respond.
According to Lionel's Complete List of Lionel Replacement Parts the complete motor p/n was 289E-35, the armature was 289E-18 and the brush plate assembly was 289E-33. The drive wheels were the same as the 249E.
Ron M
