LIONEL 2RAIL REPLACEMENT TRUCKS

Alan Hummel posted:

Can someone tell me how much the replacement 2 rail trucks for the Lionel 65ft mill gondolas cost? I can't seem to find the cost anywhere,or where to order them.

I hope Lionel keeps up the great work in 2 rail. I think if they had the Atlas 4750 model,us more modern modelers, would be seeing lots more modern rail schemes and better detail.

Thanks to all for your help.

As Always,

Al Hummel 

I was not aware that Lionel even offered 2-Rail trucks for ANY of their rolling stock.

They only offer kits to do it. I believe you'd want the 70 ton and they sell for near 20. They don't offer a 100 ton.

I just did a search and nearly every Lionel dealer popped up!

Lionel 6-84463 - 2-Rail Conversion Kit -

https://ogrforum.com/...dola-lionel-2-railed

Thank you gentlemen,maybe I had Lionel&MTH mixed up. Can Atlas 100 ton trucks be substituted? Lionel advertises that these cars can easily be converted to 2 rail and Kadee couplers. Wonder what they are talking about?

Al Hummel

I don't see any 2 rail trucks available by Lionel but they do offer 2 sets of 2 rail replacement wheels.  One set is to convert  a Lion scale car to 2 rail which is a 50 ton truck and the other one is to convert their 70 ton Lion scale car to 2 rail.  You can see them in the Lionel 2018 catalog page #197 bottom of page.  I was trying to convert a Lionel 86' high cube box car to 2 rail.  Someone on here told me that I could get 2 rail wheels to fit those Lionel trucks from a manufacturer but I forget who the manufacturer is.  LOL  My grandmother used to tell me "It's hell getting old".  I guess I'm now finding out how right she was.

Rick

I am not familiar with the new Lionel Gons, but I have converted the Lionel trucks on GLA hoppers, PS5 Gons, and PS1 flatcars by removing the couplers and replacing the wheelsets with 2 rail wheelsets.   I have found that Athearn Wheelsets work, as do Intermountain metal ones.    On some trucks they are a sloppy fit, but can be tightened by squeezing the sideframes in slightly.

The lobster claw coupler mounting rivets have to be drilled out and the truck disassembly to cut some stuff off the bolster in some cases to allow the truck to swing with a Kadee coupler box mounted.

The advantage of using the existing truck is that the mounting works without modification.   To use any other brand you probably have to build a new bolster on the car.   And just replacing wheels is relatively cheap, and free if  you have wheelsets in your parts stash.    Also, there is usually not any adjustment required for coupler height.

the first one  I did  took over an hour, but once I learned how, I can do a pair in about 1/2 hour, including touching up the paint where cuts were made.

Alan, I don't know how similar the new gondola trucks are to the older Lionel 100 ton trucks, but I know that those older 100 ton trucks could be converted to 2-rail wheelsets with NWSL replacements.  The NWSL wheelsets were even made to accommodate the spinning bearing caps.  

Methodology is discussed in this post on Jack Hill's old New Castle Industrial blog.

Alan Hummel posted:

Thank you gentlemen,maybe I had Lionel&MTH mixed up. Can Atlas 100 ton trucks be substituted? Lionel advertises that these cars can easily be converted to 2 rail and Kadee couplers. Wonder what they are talking about?

Al Hummel

Yes.

https://ogrforum.com/...44#74777184349237544

Thanks,

Naveen

Alan, I use Atlas trucks under these gons as IMO it gives a much better look and ride.  I think the biggest issue right now is availability of Atlas 100-ton trucks.  A lot of well known dealers are out of stock and waiting for Atlas to deliver more.   Atlas shows pre-order for the 7066 2R 100-ton trucks.   You can still find them just becoming more difficult.

Mike, Thank you. Is the replacement as easy as unscrewing the Lionel truck and screwing the Atlas?

Thank you.

Al

NAVEENRAJAN,

Nice conversion!! Did you use self taping screws? 

What track radii do you use? The shelf couplers are about ready and they're draft box is like the prototype so I will have to have longer radii though I coupled a 60ft Atlas tanker & a Atlas 4750 together on a 45" curve and they performed fine & even coupled on the curve. The longest car I have is a 72ft centerbeam but this will be the exception not the normal car length.

Thank you.

Al Hummel

I use Atlas roller bearing trucks (70T or 100T depending on the application) on all of my MTH and Lionel 2-rail conversions. 

Why fuss with taking trucks apart to retrofit with scale wheels when you can use Atlas trucks? They come with a plastic adapter which allows you to mount them to other mfr's railroad cars. In some cases, like Lionel PS2 hoppers, the adapters aren't required as the 2-rail trucks are a direct replacement for the 3-rail trucks. Plus, Atlas offers scale wheels in 33" (50T & 70T) and 36" (100T) diameters.

CATNAP,

Thank you for your input,my thoughts match yours on adding the Atlas roller bearing trucks whenever possible. I have some of these in supply right now.

Thanks again!

Al Hummel

RICKC posted:

I don't see any 2 rail trucks available by Lionel but they do offer 2 sets of 2 rail replacement wheels.  One set is to convert  a Lion scale car to 2 rail which is a 50 ton truck and the other one is to convert their 70 ton Lion scale car to 2 rail.  You can see them in the Lionel 2018 catalog page #197 bottom of page.  I was trying to convert a Lionel 86' high cube box car to 2 rail.  Someone on here told me that I could get 2 rail wheels to fit those Lionel trucks from a manufacturer but I forget who the manufacturer is.  LOL  My grandmother used to tell me "It's hell getting old".  I guess I'm now finding out how right she was.

Rick

Rick your Grandmom was right. I also feel like getting old is hell but the alternative is worse. 

Alan Hummel posted:

Mike, Thank you. Is the replacement as easy as unscrewing the Lionel truck and screwing the Atlas?

Thank you.

Al

Yes, Very easy!

I purchased a set of Lionel 2-rail wheelsets with the intention of using them to convert my own Lionel 86' boxcar.  wasn't able to use them due to the wheels only being insulated in the center of the axle.  not at the wheels.  they would short when mounted on the all-metal Lionel trucks.   instead I purchased a set of Atlas O roller bearing trucks.  the only problem I encountered was the bearing caps hitting the bottom edge of the car on curves.  Will need to space it about 1-2 mm to get it just right. 

Mike DeBerg posted:

Alan, I use Atlas trucks under these gons as IMO it gives a much better look and ride.  I think the biggest issue right now is availability of Atlas 100-ton trucks.  A lot of well known dealers are out of stock and waiting for Atlas to deliver more.   Atlas shows pre-order for the 7066 2R 100-ton trucks.   You can still find them just becoming more difficult.

The Protocaft 100t barber S2's look excellent under the Lionel Gon and double the value of the car. :-)

Limey posted:

Mike DeBerg posted:

Alan, I use Atlas trucks under these gons as IMO it gives a much better look and ride.  I think the biggest issue right now is availability of Atlas 100-ton trucks.  A lot of well known dealers are out of stock and waiting for Atlas to deliver more.   Atlas shows pre-order for the 7066 2R 100-ton trucks.   You can still find them just becoming more difficult.

The Protocaft 100t barber S2's look excellent under the Lionel Gon and double the value of the car. :-)

Absloutely!  Only problem is that Norm's only making them in real O scale now thought   Have to spice up the thread.  

(disclaimer, I have P:48, Ow5 and 3 rail trains at my house). 

Limey posted:

Mike DeBerg posted:

Alan, I use Atlas trucks under these gons as IMO it gives a much better look and ride.  I think the biggest issue right now is availability of Atlas 100-ton trucks.  A lot of well known dealers are out of stock and waiting for Atlas to deliver more.   Atlas shows pre-order for the 7066 2R 100-ton trucks.   You can still find them just becoming more difficult.

The Protocaft 100t barber S2's look excellent under the Lionel Gon and double the value of the car. :-)

Nick, Great idea and definitely further improves the quality of the model.  I Just hate to do that without upgrading the detailing , underframe piping, cut levers, air line, etc... I feel bad about putting highly detailed trucks on a car like this when I know most of the truck isn't going to be seen, much like the under body detail.   With the Atlas trucks (20 bucks) a little weathering, the ride height is correct, looks good and trouble free.

BTW, Bill Davis still shows some of the ASM Barber S-2 100-Ton Roller Bearing in stock!  for those wanting to go to that level of detail.

I have been using Intermountain wheel sets in the original Lionel trucks and they seem to work well.  There was a post in I believe O Scale Resources where someone popped out the bearing inserts and installed a small  shim behind the bearing to help center the wheels.  The contributor used a small piece of styrene punched out with a hole punch for the shim.  I believe the shim was .030 inches thick.  I have been assembling the truck without the shim and it seems to work OK.  Wheels are a little loose but so far they haven't come out.  You have to cut off the 3R coupler with a Dremel and a cut off disk.

I just replace the Lionel wheelsets with Athearn ones I have on hand and it works fine.    I like the older trucks with metal bolsters the best.    They are a little harder to work with since the rivets mounting the couplers have to drilled out.     However, the advantage is if the new axles seem too loose, you can simply bend the metal bolster part that is screwed to the sideframe in toward the middle a little bit.    It tightens things up.

@Mike DeBerg posted:

Nick, Great idea and definitely further improves the quality of the model.  I Just hate to do that without upgrading the detailing , underframe piping, cut levers, air line, etc... I feel bad about putting highly detailed trucks on a car like this when I know most of the truck isn't going to be seen, much like the under body detail.   With the Atlas trucks (20 bucks) a little weathering, the ride height is correct, looks good and trouble free.

BTW, Bill Davis still shows some of the ASM Barber S-2 100-Ton Roller Bearing in stock!  for those wanting to go to that level of detail.

I bought a pair a year back to test. They don't roll as well as the Protocraft ones. IMO all these trucks should have bearings inside.

My truck of choice is the Atlas Roller Bearing truck, either 70-ton with 33" wheels or the 100-ton with 36" wheels.   All of my Lionel gons ride on Atlas trucks.  Super easy. great ride height.   I sell off the lionel trucks or MTH trucks I get on rolling stock.  Atlas has the best truck out there IMO for the money.  If I need a lower ride height on a conversion I either grind down the truck bolster or use a replacement bolster from shapeways (Jim Lincoln)  as mentioned in previous posts.   I don't buy brass trucks anymore.  Not necessary.   if I could afford it and there were plenty available, sure, the Protocraft trucks can't be beat!

I used the Lionel replacement wheels on my gondolas. Next go round I'm just going with Atlas trucks. The Lionel wheels cost $20/set which isn't much less than a pair of Atlas trucks plus they're only 33" instead of 36". Also, they're code 145; I prefer the code 172 treads.