Lionel 6-81142 Vision UP Reefers

I really gotta laugh when folks around here characterize a candid analysis of market conditions and prices as "negativity".    Give us a break, please!  If you don't agree with someone's observations and analysis, that's fine. But calling it complaining and negativity as if it's not part of what you deem to be "interesting train/hobby topics" is certainly no better.  Like it or not, the market is an integral part of our hobby.  And for those of us without endlessly deep pockets trying to maximize value for our dollar, it's a relevant topic for discussion.  

If comments are made with no other merit than to bash, then THAT's complaining.  When frank comments are made in an effort to improve something (like Lionel's shipping schedule which has been a disaster for years), then one would hope we'd eventually see change for the better.  And sometimes that change is a long time coming.

HAHAHA.

David

Be careful there, J Daddy.  The "I love my Lionel right or wrong" camp may be coming out in droves on this thread now.  You don't want to be viewed as being "negative" by making accurate observations, do you?  

David

Haha you need to learn to take things tongue n cheek.  Its just toy trains not the global economic summit.  IT WAS A JOKE, to get people to chuckle.  Now you had to go make it controversial.  And please, no 3 paragraph reply, just let it be! 

Just living the dream, and could you imagine if you were the account manager and missed the production release date by 6 months?!

Max. Profit = The right product, for the right price, at the right time.

Kind of makes you wonder who is calling these plays?

Back to topic-I'm interested to see how these are received in the community.  I'm excited about them because I've never owned cars with sound.  Plan to put them in the last half of a train to maximize sound-surely there will be volume control (?).

I think these will be a 'winner' when they arrive.

I would double check that order as their website states " production run overbooked".

(~) You're.

Sorry, the irony was killing me.

Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:

While I would normally choose not to wander into the middle of the stone throwing, I would like it on the record that we had control of the situation just fine, thank you, so it can be done.

TRW

So without BTO there was "too many" of an item, often resulting in "blowouts".... now with BTO theres not enough

Ok, lets end this. The reefers are being made. Delivery is May or June thanks to Mike R at Lionel who answered this question from Chris last month. The e-mail that someone posted is not correct.

Take it easy, Charlie. I don't think anyone suggested that the run had been canceled, rather, any additional demand by dealers was denied by Lionel due to under production. I agree that the OP's email was poorly written and ambiguous, but that's my take on it.

       
That's pretty much what it is. But let explain a bit more about what happened.

As some may know, I'm fairly new to the hobby and I got into it after the catalog with these items came out so I just recently came across them and tried to find them. I contacted my local dealership which reached out to one of their suppliers and the supplier came back and said they had one left over from what they ordered so they put in my dealerships order.

About 2 weeks later, the day I posted this topic, I was given this email while I was at my dealership. So I'm not sure what it means exactly but my dealership did explain that they are being made but also that Lionel can't meet the demand for this product.

I did put my order in with wholesale trains before their website said overbooked, so fingers crossed. This topic was started in the wanted section of the forum, just so someone could notify me if they found these elsewhere. I didn't intend for the topic to cause ripples or scare anyone.

The large demand for these cars is proven by this topic! I hope those that get their hands on these enjoy them! ☺

That's never been up for debate, Charlie.  The issue is are any "extras" available for pre-order NOW?  And by extras, we're talking "extra" dealer inventory which some dealers may have ordered (above-and-beyond consumer pre-orders) when they needed to get order quantities finalized by Lionel's BTO deadline.

Some dealers have already stated they are "sold out" of the quantities they ordered thru Lionel. Do you have any to sell?

Small LHS's are a completely different story... and may only be able to now receive the quantities they initially ordered through their distributor -- unless of course their distributor ordered extras "on spec" to supply them as needed.

Shouldn't be this complicated, but it's the "dealer/distributor BTO wildcard" in play... and it's always an unknown for consumers, and it varies from product to product.  Not everyone is buying into the need to pre-order BTO items by the Lionel deadline.  But they just need to understand the risk that some dealers may not have the "extra stock" ordered "on spec" very much longer after items hit the street -- or in this case, even before they hit the street.

David

Yes, there will be a physical volume control on the car and you will also be able to adjust volume from your Legacy or CAB-1/CAB-1L remote.

Rudy, what kind of reefer specific sounds will come with these cars? The ethanol cars had filling sounds, and the slosh effect amongst wheel screech and other standard freight sounds.

Rudy,

Will the volume control go to 11?

Thanks for clarifying!

Really excited for these to arrive! 

BTO allows for meeting a minimum threshold and a actual production target. Since many companies in China have to share production time, there is a maximum number that can be produced per run. This reads to me like the orders hit this maximum number. It's probably likely that these will be re-run in the future.

Peter

There will be a whole set of custom sound for this product. It will include comparable (but revised) wheel and track sounds like the tank cars plus a new set of sounds related to  loading, re-icing and unloading operations.

Wow - loading, icing, unloading. Glad I got my order in early and (it has to be said) from a major Lionel dealer. 

I'm not going to speculate on the numbers of this set that are going to be produced or why. But if you keep track of how certain Lionel products have fared in the aftermarket (like the Vision tank cars and Vision GE Evos, the latter even imitated in several versions by MTH) it's pretty obvious that the thinking behind them struck a chord in the market.

P.S. I am prepared to wait for such features even if for whatever reason production has been delayed a few months.

My dealer said my order is good, so, Relief. I have the Vision Tank Cars and they are really neat. May, June, July, its just fine. This is a good thread. Happy Railroading.

Interesting that you brought this up.  I guess only Lionel knows for sure what the situation is here.  But if what you say is true -- namely, that there is a maximum number that can be produced per run, then that puts a slightly different spin on BTO.

In other words, are we saying it becomes possible that even in a BTO environment, an importer may not fulfill all pre-orders under certain production conditions?  Hhhmmm... that scenario never came up last year as a possible explanation when Lionel reportedly short-shipped the scale Polar Express Black Berks to Charlie Ro.  Folks here -- even some dealers on the forum -- were quick to conclude that an error was made when Charlie Ro submitted his BTO order quantity to Lionel.  I never got that impression when speaking with Charlie, by the way.  And sure enough, Charlie is now expecting another shipment of black P/E Berks in May/June this year.

All speculation aside... whatever may have REALLY happened with the Berks, I doubt Lionel would let it happen again to the same dealer.  Isn't it ironic how the BTO plot continues to thicken as we glean bits and pieces of information each day about the nuances of overseas production nowadays? 

Of course, it would be nice to hear the "real story" from Lionel on this.  But for now, we can be very thankful to Lionel folks like Rudy for chiming in with the technical details on the reefer sounds feature.  Thanks Rudy!!!

David

I called Charles Ro to check on my order for both the freight cars and the extra tender with the flag and they advise me that both were on back order and on the way....not sure what on the way really means but my orders are solid with them. Got an email advising me of the same.

Is was like the Big Boys, order, you get it. Charlie has a few in stock. My bet is that those were folks that canceled and he may have hedged and bought a few extra's. Bottom line, I am expecting both until i get official notice.

i guess I need to call them tomorrow. 

I ordered from Charlie, the 6-29989 (QTY 2) got them along with the Freight sound version. In addition, I was able to get the 6-27372. That gives me 9 right now plus the 3 or 12 in total. I also found 5 MTH Premier unit on Ebay from the 20-3415 set. I bought the cars -5 in total so I will end up with 17 and will continue to look for more. While I would like it to be Lionel specific just not in the cards especially since at NJ HiRailers club I can borrow some cars if needed. 

I would be really smokes if I do not get the 3 car freight sounds set given I ordered it 6 or more months ago.

By the way, I don't think that their is anything wrong with expressing your thoughts. Atlas, Lionel and MTH miss shipping dates. In fact, they cancel products when they feel it is not profitable or won't sell. That is their issue and our.

Build to order means - Build to order. Order dates were clearly published by many dealers so you had the option and enough time. Inventory management means less costs. Now if they cancelled the line - we, all those that pre ordered within the window that don't get them because they cancelled  then maybe we all let Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc know we are NOT happy by using our wallets.

Dialog is good even if one is frustrated with market and deliveries.

Perfect example - Ordered, production cancelled, product delivered

My fault for not being on top of may game, but forgot I ordered a Conrail engine, waited over 12 months for it. Totally forgot, was told production was limit - no promises. I should have cancelled but I did not.  So ordered another one but it this time from another dealer - Guess what - both arrived within 2 days of each other. So now, I have 2 Conrail Heritage Engines, same road numbers.

At times, missing shipping dates or failure to communicate causes problems.

update - 

My Lionel authorized dealer told me this morning if your orders were in by the deadline you should get what you ordered. He was what I was told today.

PFE Steel Pack - Freight Sounds - Scheduled for April

UP Caboose - April

AP Aux Tender (s) - May

Received my set today from Ro.

I got mine on Friday, they look great an the sounds from the mini Fat Boy are outstanding. The other item is that if you can fine a second set you can add more than on sound reefer to the train set.

Team,

If you can find the 3 pack of the PFE 6-29989 from 2014 V2 catalog and add them to the newly release 6- 81141. I did that yesterday.

Here are a few pictures

Few additional shots = Sorry had to use a small pocket camera that is about 6 years old

Well, you didn't "have" to use that camera, you could go out and buy yourself the latest SLR digital model.   Of course, you couldn't afford those reefers if you did that...

Gunrunner,

Have a much better camera at home. When I pulled these out was on Saturday, was at my friends so I had to use what was available. The next set will come from a much better DSLR. 

Heck, I'm glad I bought'em just for the box!!

If Lionel was dumb enough to cancel certain Orders, a big Lawsuit is in the water, but remember some dealers have the personality that if it weren't for the last minute nothing would get done. I would buy the ones from MTH just because how nice they are.

Mine arrived too.  Seems some dealers are letting no grass grow beneath their feet with this stuff.  (Can't say I blame them either.)  Inventory comes in one day and ships right out to consumers the same or next day.   

I still need to get down to Nicholas Smith Trains and pick up my other set that came in last week.    They would have shipped it too, but I told them to hold it at the store when I placed the pre-order.

David

Speaking entirely for myself, I am happy with any photos of this set and if there are better ones on the way that's great! The reason is I didn't have time to open my box once it arrived because of having to go on a work trip but seeing the Vision Line treatment of these boxes reminded me of the ethanol tank car set, which I wish they'd re-issue.

Except the MTH ones have no sound!  I have a single MTH one, and I like the Lionel ones better due to better detailing, IMHO.

Speaking of sound, the same guy that was working on the Hot Box Reefers is back on the Vision Line Reefers. He's apparently the foreman...

He was promoted from brakeman?