Lionel 6-82883 360W Legacy Powermaster

I'm sure the 360W Legacy Powermaster works as documented, it's just a high power version of the 180W Legacy Powermaster.

FWIW, IMO there is rarely ever a reason to put 20 amps of power on your rails!  That's welding country, and you're likely to experience some damage in a derailment with that much power on tap.  I have a passenger car that now sounds like it has a flat wheel from running on a club layout with 20A on the rails, an errant switch derailed it, and a few seconds sizzling on the center rail took a nice bite out of the wheel!

If you're running strictly command, I see no reason for the PowerMaster at all.  If you run an occasional conventional locomotive, the MTH TIU will control them from the DCS remote on the two variable channels.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you're running strictly command, I see no reason for the PowerMaster at all.  If you run an occasional conventional locomotive, the MTH TIU will control them from the DCS remote on the two variable channels.

I'm surprised to hear you say that John - I find that being able to turn track power on and off from the Cab-2 is extremely convenient.

Not to mention having the emergency stop cut power!

You can control track power a lot cheaper than the PH360, the BPC2, the ASC2, etc.

@gunrunnerjohn - What's a conventional locomotive?   A

@gunrunnerjohn - Completely off topic, but did you populate the components on your LED power supply regulator and reflow it yourself? A

@Professor Chaos - You do inadvertently touch on a concept that I have been mulling over for my stationary layout.  And that is the notion of having emergency stops buttons (the big red buttons) on the sides of the layout itself.  I'll not always have the TIU/Legacy remote in hand to do a cold stop and, in the sake of precious seconds, it would be better to have access to a large physical button.

Anthony

@A. Wells posted:

@gunrunnerjohn - Completely off topic, but did you populate the components on your LED power supply regulator and reflow it yourself? A

No, I build prototypes, but when there's a thousand of them involved, I get them assembled.

@gunrunnerjohn - I'm at a complete stand still on prototypes until I get my reflow oven fixed.

No reflow oven here, I hand build a prototype or two, then I let the Chinese build them in quantity.  Maybe Joe will manage to make manufacturing cheaper in the US and I can build them here again.  I'm not holding my breath.

@gunrunnerjohn - I use PCBWay.  They're able to do very small size PCBs and the turn around time is incredible.  I can do my own stencils and I tried using a rework heat gun to reflow.  It almost worked...but almost is not good enough.

I was using PCBWay but they had some quality issues on two consecutive runs, and I moved to another board house.  I've tried three or four over the last few years, I think they get complacent after three or four jobs and start cutting corners.  I typically do turnkey and they supply everything, trying to ship parts over there would be a nightmare!

Regarding the original post our club is building a new layout with the 360w PM. I recently have seen an issue with 1 car and the breaker in them still trips very fast. Furthermore with DCS obviously the TIU MUST be ran in passive mode. As discussed in other threads a 22uh Choke is recommended to help the DCS signal. For this I wanted something a little cleaner than a random choke spliced into my feed so I made my own PCB

A. Wells,  great Question, I use the 360 Watt powermaster on my layout, connected to 2 180 watt Lionel bricks, which in turn are connected to 19 blocks via 5 BPC’S. If I choose to operate conventional post war type engines, I simply slide the switch to conventional, and the same is true for TMCC/Legacy. This system works fine allowing me and others to turn off and on blocks as needed. Before I began using this accessory, I used Lionels TPC’S, Track Power Controllers, which have gone bad over the years and can’t be repaired. I recommend the 180 watt or the 360 watt Powermasters as they seem to be reliable. By the way, it’s wireless technology, just one wire I believe. You can pull up the instructions sheet online probably. Good luck. Happy Railroading Everyone

@zhubl (Zachariah) - That's a nice set-up!  I have a 10 A 22uH choke ready and waiting for passive wiring but as it stands, the power supply is still feeding through the TIU.  In my personal opinion, I feel like the circuit breaker protection in the TIU is a little slower compared to the TMCC lock-on that I have...but that just might be me.

Anthony

@leapinlarry - I have a small army of 180W Lionel bricks (most still in the box waiting their moment to shine).  I'll have to look into these Block Power Controller's that you reference.  Already downloaded the instruction manual.  I may purchase/obtain the 360W PowerMaster and keep it as a standby.  Not decided yet.

Anthony

@A. Wells posted:

@zhubl (Zachariah) - That's a nice set-up!  I have a 10 A 22uH choke ready and waiting for passive wiring but as it stands, the power supply is still feeding through the TIU.  In my personal opinion, I feel like the circuit breaker protection in the TIU is a little slower compared to the TMCC lock-on that I have...but that just might be me.

There is no circuit breaker protection in the TIU, the only "circuit protection" is the 20A fuse!  Double caution, don't run more than 10 amps through each TIU channel, it's not built to take it!

FWIW, the TMCC Direct Lockon will kill the DCS signal if you put it between the TIU and track.  If you must use the Lockon (I didn't find it all that useful), put it on the input side of the TIU.

ZHUBL, are you saying that because of the 20A power available, that is too much for the TIU so that is why it "must be in passive mode"? I have no experience with passive mode. I am using 180W bricks on each of the 12 blocks on my layout with 3 TIUs in SUPER mode. I am scared to death of shorts. GRJ's comment above about 20A being "welding" level power is enough to leave me out of the 360.

Don Merz

You can't put more than 10 amps through an individual TIU channel.  The fixed channels it'll probably just cook the traces or blow the fuse.  The variable channels 20 amps would almost surely kill the voltage control FET's.

If you're running in excess of 10 amps on the track, you must use passive mode for the TIU.  Also, don't ever ask me to come over and run on your layout, I've directly experienced what 20 amps on the tracks can do if you have a derailment and a wheel drops on the center track.

The real issue I had was for whatever reason, the two PH180 bricks combined seemed to screw up the circuit protection, because the breakers never tripped.  Given that the PH180 circuit protection is normally first class, I can only imagine that somehow them being combined was fooling the circuit protection.  It could be that we never actually drew 20 amps, but just enough to weld my wheel to the rail, I was not a happy camper!

@gunrunnerjohn - I did have the TMCC lock-on between the PH180 and the TIU input for a time but for some reason, I thought the TIU had over current protection, so I removed it.  My guess is it's the PH180 that has tripped in the past (that's why I refuse to use the Atlas Switch coils).  I honestly don't think I'll ever need 20 amps but my calculations seem to indicate I'll need about 12 amps (2 amps per powered locomotive), so the 360W Powermaster came to mind.  I could get a PSX-1AC, if they're still available, and set it for 12 amps...should I go that route.

Now I'm thinking I'll reinstall the TMCC lock-on.

A

The PH180 has an excellent circuit breaker, I don't feel the need for adding something like the TMCC Lockon.  Truthfully, I don't like circuit protection that keeps turning back on by itself and banging the load with more short circuit current!  I want the breaker to trip, and I'll decide when to reset it!

I don't know could be wrong here. When the 360 powermaster is hooked to two 180 bricks and a derailment happens it seems to fold back the power. I usually shut it down at that point. If I don't get to it right away it will shut itself down. Never seen any sparks, welding to tracks or any other damage. What is really nice usually don't have to run back and reset the PH breakers. Don't know anything about MTH TIU. The only time have had melting trucks and high voltage disasters was with old postwar ZW's.

@A. Wells posted:

“@zhubl (Zachariah) - That's a nice set-up!  I have a 10 A 22uH choke ready and waiting for passive wiring but as it stands, the power supply is still feeding through the TIU...”

Anthony

I like what I came up with, the 22uh choke I’ve used is rated for 34A definitely in range with room to spare. The traces are 2oz copper and .4” wide. Witch when I calculated it should be good for the 20A.

while I can understand the concern with 20A capable track current I think the Legacy 360W PM is your best option. Then again some layouts simply don’t NEED that much power or if all command  you can break a loop up into different power districts to spread out any load. I think like what was mentioned above there’s never a plan for 20A of load but the occasional load of say 12 amps that would with no doubt get you frustrated when the 10A breaker blows every 5 minutes