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179 replies

Lionel Base 3/Cab 3 Initial Impressions

cdswindellcdswindellOGR Forum Member

I received my Base 3 yesterday. Actually, I received two. Like the famous line in the movie Contact, "why buy one when you can get to at twice the price?"

Here are some initial impressions of the unit itself and the iPhone/iPad Cab 3 app.

First, the good news:

  • The unit worked out of the box and I had trains running in about 10 minutes!
  • The build quality is better (IMHO) than the LCS blue boxes.
  • As advertised, there is a different color status light for each of the radios and a nice, big, lighted (L) which illuminates when my iPad was connected
  • I was able to connect the unit to my home network via WPS as well as use it as an Access Point where the box sets up its own wireless network
  • Was able to control trains and switches from my old Cab 2 controller, the new Cab 3 app, as well as the LCS app.
  • The unit supported my LCS switch position monitor and switch throw modules
  • The unit has a dedicated power switch on the back so it can be turned on and off manually without unplugging/replugging
  • I only tested Legacy-controlled engines, but they worked fine. I had control of sound, couplers, speed, etc. The Cab 3 app in many ways mimics the icons shown on the Cab 2 controller, with some welcome additions to trigger specific audio sequences.
  • I was able to import engine data from a backup done on my Cab 2 Base (Legacy 990) onto a black module into the Cab 3 app and onto the Base 3.
  • The USB port on the back of the Base 3 was recognized as a valid serial port on my Microsoft Surface Pro 10 (Com 5).
  • Changing the TMCC Control channel worked as advertised (for communication with my Cab 2)
  • Did I mention I had trains running 10 minutes after I set up the Base 3 (and got WiFi configured).



The other side of the coin (not good news, all prefaced by I did not read the online manual cover to cover):

  • There really was very little setup information provided in the Base 3 box. The one pager did have a snazzy "QR" code that those in the know could use to go to the on-line manual, but those that don't know what a QR code is would have had no way of knowing it linked thru to a manual.
  • The WPS setup (which is described in the online manual but not the one-pager) was buggy at best. I had to try about 10 times before it worked, and it still isn't clear to me if I will ever need to redo it. The box sometimes lost its IP address (verified via ping as well as access via the Cab 3 app). I was able to enter my wifi name and password into the Cab 3 app by swiping down on the "Base 3" page, but I found that by accident. I think the Base 3 System Utility, once released, will make this easier.
  • There is no hole in the terminal block for the signal wire (the U terminal) as there was on the Cab 2 Base. I connected my bare wire to a spare banana plug and it worked fine.
  • The WPS button sometimes looked like it was still depressed once I released it. May not be an issue.
  • The Cab 3 app frequently lost access to the Base 3. Pressing the little WiFi enunciator icon (when it turned red), usually reconnected the app to the base (and the enunciator turned green), but not always.
  • Reading engine configuration from the Base 2 backup was buggy. I created a backup on my base 2 using the new black module that came with the Base 3. Frequently, the Cab 3 app reported the module was faulty or unreadable, but then all would work.
  • After loading an engine from the module, the Cab 3 display would display the previous engine I had loaded, not the most recent.
  • Sorting on the engine roster tab wasn't "sticky"; I had to constantly reset it to "sort by TMCC ID").
  • I only realized after I had manually restored 15 engines 1 at a time, that there may have been a way to have read them all under the "Database Backup" tab that is displayed when you do a swipe down.
  • Icons for the Acela engines were not present on my version of Cab 3.
  • I couldn't figure out how to transfer over my switches, routes, and trains from my Cab 2. I was able to manually enter my switches and routes, but I couldn't figure out how to build a train. The "TR" button seems to be locked in to "Track Power Control" mode.
  • I couldn't figure out how to assign different graphics to the engine pictorials on the Cab 3



You will note that almost all of the issues I've noted should be fixable via software updates to the Cab 3 app and firmware updates to the Base 3. It was fun controlling my layout from my iPad. I will probably switch over to my iPhone, as it is much smaller. I hope the updates to the Cab 3 software come fast, but I look forward to retiring my 990 and entering this brave new digital world!

  -- Dave

Last edited by cdswindell
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TJ Tracker JohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Connecting a Cab2 to the Base3 is easy.  No problems noted during my limited testing of a Legacy engine and a TMCC engine.  (I don't have a Cab1L to test, but that should be simple too).  Note that the c1995 Cab1 base and handheld won't work (*).

* A SER2 on a LCS input line *should* allow a Cab1 to be used.  I'll experiment soon.

Update: The original TMCC Command system (Cab1) will work with the Base3 via a LCS SER2 box.  Connect the Cab1 base to the SER2 with a null modem cable DB9 Male to DB9 Male.

Last edited by Tracker John
PatapscoValleyRRPatapscoValleyRROGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@cdswindell posted:


  • I only realized after I had manually restored 15 engines 1 at a time, that there may have been a way to have read them all under the "Database Backup" tab that is displayed when you do a swipe down.


  -- Dave

How did you load more than 1 at a time.   I have about 40 engines to load.  I figured I would be doing them as I want to run them.    If there is a quicker way.  

Also, I realized I have manually set up the switches, routes and accessories.   Fortunately I have a switch board to operate them or I can use LCS.   For now, I  keep the LSC running on the CAB2 until I migrate them over to CAB3.

I added 2 engines and it was fun to use the CAB3.  

MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER
@leapinlarry posted:

My base 3/app 3 unit is now at my hobby shop, however, I’m taking a little time picking it up until I hear some better news…. To just connect this system up and run trains with the Cab 1 and Cab 2 remotes, is that easy? I’m not going to run the trains via IPad or IPhone. Thank you

Using Cab2 or Cab1 L is very easy.  Unfortunately right now migrating your database over can be a task at this point.  To be honest for me adding the database in manually was something I was going to do anyways to learn how to use the system.

Last edited by MartyE
MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER
@PatapscoValleyRR posted:

How did you load more than 1 at a time.   I have about 40 engines to load.  I figured I would be doing them as I want to run them.    If there is a quicker way.  

Also, I realized I have manually set up the switches, routes and accessories.   Fortunately I have a switch board to operate them or I can use LCS.   For now, I  keep the LSC running on the CAB2 until I migrate them over to CAB3.

I added 2 engines and it was fun to use the CAB3.  

Until the B3SU is released, you would need to create a multi-engine module using the Legacy Base and the original LSU program.  Once this is done you can use Base3 and the Cab3 app or Cab2 to assign engines from the multi engine module to their proper ID.

PatapscoValleyRRPatapscoValleyRROGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@MartyE posted:

Until the B3SU is released, you would need to create a multi-engine module using the Legacy Base and the original LSU program.  Once this is done you can use Base3 and the Cab3 app or Cab2 to assign engines from the multi engine module to their proper ID.

Marty,  

It is good to know I will be able to use the B3SU load my trains, accessories, switches.   For now the multi-module has my engines and I will use it as I pick a train to run.   I am still going keep CAB2 up to run the switches / Accessories using my dedicated IPAD for this until the B3SU comes out.  

There is plenty of stuff to try out on the CAB3 to keep me busy.  

cdswindellcdswindellOGR Forum Member
@PatapscoValleyRR posted:

How did you load more than 1 at a time.   I have about 40 engines to load.  I figured I would be doing them as I want to run them.    If there is a quicker way.  

Also, I realized I have manually set up the switches, routes and accessories.   Fortunately I have a switch board to operate them or I can use LCS.   For now, I  keep the LSC running on the CAB2 until I migrate them over to CAB3.

I added 2 engines and it was fun to use the CAB3.  

I loaded mine one at a time. After doing so, I realized that had I gone to the “Database Backup” tab, the “Restore Database” button might have loaded all the engines.

MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER
@cdswindell posted:

I loaded mine one at a time. After doing so, I realized that had I gone to the “Database Backup” tab, the “Restore Database” button might have loaded all the engines.

It probably wouldn't have worked.  The multi-engine module is not the database.  It simply records the engine data such as road name, road number, type, etc. just like the Orange Modules had on them but it holds multiple engines worth.  It has no association with an engine ID.  That's why you would have to select and ID and then select the engines information you want to associate with that ID.

The database on the other hand knows which ID that engine data is associated with so it's a much more complete record.  Until we get the B3SU, we can't truly transfer the database.  What you did was correct for now.

Once B3SU comes out, you can use LSU to download your Legacy database to your computer and use B3SU to upload it to Base3.  I believe the option on the App3 only saves and recalls Base3 databases and only the 2 digit items.  Right now there is no way to save a Legacy Base database to a black module.

Last edited by MartyE
B BC1989OGR Forum Member

I've been using the 990 Legacy Command set for my Legacy engines and switches and my iPhone for all my LionChief + 2.0 engines (all my Lionchief materials have Bluetooth in them).  I got my Base3 yesterday and I hope I can find the time to try testing it this weekend.  I don't have the room for a permanent layout so it's always carpet kingdoms with me.

Question: If I use the Base 3 app on my iPad (or whatever the new app is called, the one that gives you Legacy buttons) and if I input information about my Legacy engines into that app, will it carry over to my iPhone as well?  In other words, if I go ahead and program an engine or a switch into my app on one iDevice, and if I have the app on my other iDevice, will it automatically share the information, the way my Kindle app automatically syncs across devices?

MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER
@BC1989 posted:

I've been using the 990 Legacy Command set for my Legacy engines and switches and my iPhone for all my LionChief + 2.0 engines (all my Lionchief materials have Bluetooth in them).  I got my Base3 yesterday and I hope I can find the time to try testing it this weekend.  I don't have the room for a permanent layout so it's always carpet kingdoms with me.

Question: If I use the Base 3 app on my iPad (or whatever the new app is called, the one that gives you Legacy buttons) and if I input information about my Legacy engines into that app, will it carry over to my iPhone as well?  In other words, if I go ahead and program an engine or a switch into my app on one iDevice, and if I have the app on my other iDevice, will it automatically share the information, the way my Kindle app automatically syncs across devices?

Yes and your Cab2 as well.  And vice versa.  Like the 990, the database is in the Base3 so any device that connects to it has the same engine roster just like when you take your Cab2 to another layout with a 990.

Last edited by MartyE
gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Volphin posted:

My Base 3 will not connect via WPS.  Using AP was buggy as well, and the app keeps quitting when I try to start an engine.  It thinks the engine is a diesel and the arrows are not allowing me to change the config.  Still not one successful startup yet after 1.5hrs.

I couldn't connect the LCS WiFi module using WPS when I first got it.  I tried four different routers, and only one recognized the WPS, sadly it was a spare and not the router used for my home network that I needed to connect.

I have a feeling that some folks are going to have the same experience with the BASE3.  I finally got the LCS WiFi connected here using the LcsWifiMonitorLE program.  I suspect a similar capability will be needed by some to get the BASE3 connected to their WiFi.

Apples55Apples55OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@MartyE posted:

It probably wouldn't have worked.  The multi-engine module is not the database.  It simply records the engine data such as road name, road number, type, etc. just like the Orange Modules had on them but it holds multiple engines worth.  It has no association with an engine ID.  That's why you would have to select and ID and then select the engines information you want to associate with that ID.

The database on the other hand knows which ID that engine data is associated with so it's a much more complete record.  Until we get the B3SU, we can't truly transfer the database.  What you did was correct for now.

Once B3SU comes out, you can use LSU to download your Legacy database to your computer and use B3SU to upload it to Base3.  I believe the option on the App3 only saves and recalls Base3 databases and only the 2 digit items.  Right now there is no way to save a Legacy Base database to a black module.

Marty;

I may have missed it, but is there a time frame for the release of the B3SU??? Thanks.

Apples55Apples55OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Thanks

@MartyE posted:

From the Power and Control Website...

Download the B3SU: coming 9/1/2024 – sorry for the delay! We’re making it great!

Thanks for the quick reply, Marty - didn’t think of checking there. I just got back from picking my B3 from Gryzboski’s, so now I have to make a decision. When I first set up my Cab2, I tried to be somewhat logical about it - one range of ID’s for steamers, one for diesels, one for electrics. Unfortunately due to my penchant for buying engines and the proliferation of miscellaneous cars needing ID’s, my logical system is in major disarray. So now I don’t know whether I should wait for the B3SU or just start adding engines as I use them. This leads to one more question… is there any way to get some sort of data dump from the LCS app or utility that lists all ID’s with their info??? That would make reorganizing much easier???

Thanks again.

LionlmanLionlmanOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER

When I got my Base 3 earlier this week, I removed the Legacy Base 2 and replaced it with the Base 3.  Hooked up the wire from the Base 3 to my ZW-L, attached my antenna to the Base 3 and turned the Base 3 on.  Turned on my Cab 2 entered my engine ID and started up my engine and I was running trains in less than five minutes.

Neal Jeter

Last edited by Lionlman
DG Dave 69 GTELOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Tracker John posted:

If you have a SensorTrack, adding a Legacy engine (w/IR) is simple.  Enter Eng + ID# which will use TMCC as the default engine type.  Run the engine across the SensorTrack and the Base3 will pick up all the engine info.  Then there's the Black Module transfer method which I have not yet tried.

That's probably true. I have an LCS Sensor track. But to use it with the Base 3 you need a new cable, an LCS PDI cable, either a: 1’ (6-81500), 3’ (6-81501), 10’ (6-81502) and 20’ (6-81503) lengths. So unless you have that cable you are unable to use the sensor track. You can daisy up to 10 LCS modules up to 1 PDI port for a total of 30 to the back of the Base 3.

DG Dave 69 GTELOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Lionlman posted:

When I got my Base 3 earlier this week, I removed the Legacy Base 2 and replaced it with the Base 3.  Hooked up the wire from the Base 3 to my ZW-L, attached my antenna to the Base 3 and turned the Base 3 on.  Turned on my Cab 2 entered my engine ID and started up my engine and I was running trains in less than five minutes.

Neal Jeter

My CAB2 works well on it as well. But the CAB3 app, not so much at all. And that's the acid test. Base 3 does not respond to TRK commands to turn up power on the ZW-L. The only command that makes the Base 3 light flicker is the Bell/Horn. People report loading engiine information over from the black module. I don't see how they are doing that. There is nothing in the CAB3 app that I can see that allows for engine import. I updated the firmware on my CAB2 controller successfully to 1.74. I made a refresh of my black engine info module. I plugged it into the CAB3. I read somewhere the importing a whole engine roster will not be possible untill release of the CAB3 Sytem Utility on September 1 (2024?). They've had several years to create and perfect this utility software and it wasn't ready on launch date, so I'll believe it when I see it. But I also read somewhere that somehow it is possible to import a roster 1 engine or car at a time using the CAB3 app. I don't see anything like that in the app. I'm running the CAB3 app on an Apple iPhone 8plus, if it makes a differnce.

@Tracker John posted:

Connecting a Cab2 to the Base3 is easy.  No problems noted during my limited testing of a Legacy engine and a TMCC engine.  (I don't have a Cab1L to test, but that should be simple too).  Note that the c1995 Cab1 base and handheld won't work (*).

* A SER2 on a LCS input line *should* allow a Cab1 to be used.  I'll experiment soon.

According to Dave Olsen, who I spoke with at the 2023 LCCA convention, there is a way to connect a CAB1 base to the CAB3 and make it work. It involved some adapter cableing but I don't remeber what he said. Should have writted it down. Will revisit it after I sort out this mess.

@H1000 posted:

I have a trash can you can throw it away in when you are ready!

I wouldn't throw anything away yet.

@Bruce Brown posted:

I thought it was rather bizarre that many Base3 setup instructions depend on the B3SU software...which doesn't exist! I also found the one-page QuickStart instructions to be totally inadequate to do much of anything. On the other hand, the CAB3 has lots of neat colored lights. At least for now, I won't be throwing away my reliable CAB2 Base.

You are correct sir! (As Ed McMan would say on Johnnie Carson). I also find it incredible that you pay about $500 and don't get a printed comprehensive manual! Even when you follow the link and go to control.lionel.com you don't find a comprhesive PDF to download or print out. Instead you find piecemeal links and you need to find the section that has the information you are looking for.

Thanks Lionel for thinking of your customers and releasing this thing when you had it just right.

Well it looks like the CAB3 is coming off and the CAB2 and CAB1 are going back on.

N NortonOGR Forum Member
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

According to Dave Olsen, who I spoke with at the 2023 LCCA convention, there is a way to connect a CAB1 base to the CAB3 and make it work. It involved some adapter cableing but I don't remeber what he said. Should have writted it down. Will revisit it after I sort out this mess.

Dave indicated instructions for interfacing a TMCC Base to the Base3 would be posted on the Lionel website. So far crickets. Our club is interested in a Base3 but not until all our members can use the controllers they already have and that includes many with just a Cab1.



Pete

Last edited by Norton
Apples55Apples55OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

That's probably true. I have an LCS Sensor track. But to use it with the Base 3 you need a new cable, an LCS PDI cable, either a: 1’ (6-81500), 3’ (6-81501), 10’ (6-81502) and 20’ (6-81503) lengths. So unless you have that cable you are unable to use the sensor track. You can daisy up to 10 LCS modules up to 1 PDI port for a total of 30 to the back of the Base 3.

Dave;

This techno-peasant needs some clarification… won’t the current LCS PDI cable which is attached to the Sensor Track work with the Base 3??? Since the portion of my layout where the track is located is sceniced, replacing the cable will be problematic. Thanks.

MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER
@Norton posted:

Dave indicated instructions for interfacing a TMCC Base to the Base3 would be posted on the Lionel website. So far crickets. Our club is interested in a Base3 but not until all our members can use the controllers they already have and that includes many with just a Cab1.



Pete

Buy a SER2 and connect it to the PDI buss and connect the TMCC base to the serial port on the SER2. Done.

RR Reading RROGR Forum Member

Took the Base 3 to the LSHR layout to due a test and put it though it's paces.  Glad to report all worked as advertised, except control of the ZW-L PS.  We had to use a hardware hand remote to control transformer power.

Dave 69 - you use a multi engine module created on the original legacy base, and then on the Cab3 select a TMCC# and then swipe up to the engine configuration page select load engine, then select engine and load same. Hit back on configuration page and repeat.  And Bob's your uncle!  Takes about 1 / 2 minutes per engine once you get the hang of it.

DG Dave 69 GTELOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Apples55 posted:

Dave;

This techno-peasant needs some clarification… won’t the current LCS PDI cable which is attached to the Sensor Track work with the Base 3??? Since the portion of my layout where the track is located is sceniced, replacing the cable will be problematic. Thanks.

It will work. The LCS track will no longer require the seperate power supply. However if you don't have a spare PCI cable you will of coarse temporarily lose the function of the LCS units that are chained to the cable until you can get a new cable.

DG Dave 69 GTELOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Reading RR posted:

Took the Base 3 to the LSHR layout to due a test and put it though it's paces.  Glad to report all worked as advertised, except control of the ZW-L PS.  We had to use a hardware hand remote to control transformer power.

Dave 69 - you use a multi engine module created on the original legacy base, and then on the Cab3 select a TMCC# and then swipe up to the engine configuration page select load engine, then select engine and load same. Hit back on configuration page and repeat.  And Bob's your uncle!  Takes about 1 / 2 minutes per engine once you get the hang of it.

I'll try it. You have found as I have that it is not possible to control track power from a ZW-L, and probably a ZW-C with this app. Where did you find how to import individual engine IDs? I looked throughout control.lionel instruction pages and didn't see anything about it. This rollout is really ticking me off.

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Tags: Impressions, Cab, Base 3, WPS, WiFi, Initial, LCS, Base, Lionel
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