Lionel Berkshire pilot truck bearing fix

Thanks for easily solving a minor problem for a lot of forum members.  Now maybe we can see more videos!

Today CS told me to glue it.  

Many folks will appreciate your suggestion.

Lionel told me to glue it too if it's not broken. It's broken and I want the original ones that snap in.

Here is a picture of the two bushings. They came snapped off just where the triangular tab is that must keep them in. I superglued the tabs back on...don't know if it will hold but might until I get the replacement actual parts from Lionel. I just thought I would try fixing them...not easy to hold them perfectly until they stuck. And as you can see, I didn't glue them to my fingers.

someone needs to correct the Lionel CS rep.

these berks have been made for years.

Where's "Big Mike" when you need him?????

Dave, he is at the other end of the phone if you have the correct number.  Call Phil Hull as he is the man who gets it done now.  I might add that Phil does a fantastic job for Lionel.

I am sure that bearing will be used in many other steam locomotives.   I have installed many of these over the years and if it takes more than fifteen seconds, start sending your work out.

 Building these. Phil is the new big man at service. I am sure they are working this 

Stop calling and email. Email always works better, the "tech guys" read the emails.

Fill out the form at the "service/repair question" link here:

http://www.lionel.com/ContactUs/

The "customer service lady" is just "following procedure". She does not have the product knowledge to know that the bushings are the same in the 2010 loco as they are now.

I'd be willing to bet these same bushings are likely used in other steamers as well.

All,

One of things you will often hear me say is: "I am only responsible for what I "say", not for what someone "hears".

One of my reps advised you to glue the bearing into the truck, not glue the bearing together. There is a difference! This is the first I have heard of the bearing being broken, my understanding up to this point is that bearing was dislodging from the pilot truck, thus releasing the pilot axle from its proper position. No one has advised me of a broken bearing (gosh, I cannot even imagine that bearing breaking! its murder to clip them in half with a new pair of side cutters, let alone have them break on their own!).

The suggestion was to glue the bearing into the pilot casting. Let's all be honest with one another; when is the last time you had a pilot truck axle out of the pilot casting on a scale loco? (if anyone responds to this question I am sure we would all like to know the purpose for removing it! (and applying oil is a bogus answer!)).

Now, on to parts;

Do we have parts? Yes, we have parts, are they cataloged and in inventory to ship out immediately? No. How can you, the user, determine when this will occur? Check the parts site for the exploded view diagram of the loco. When parts appear with the fields to allow you to order them, we have them in stock (this does not mean you have to pay for them, it means the parts are put away, assigned a location and ready to be picked and shipped).

Its really simple folks, locos come in, the priority is to ship them to your dealers. They arrive at service the same time they arrive at your dealers doorstep. Only all you need to do is take it out of the box and run it. We need to completely disassemble it, catalog it (every single piece of the 200-300piece component list), verify we are not assigning a new number to an existing part, photograph it, then disassemble the engines we received, segregate the parts and ultimately put them away. Once they are put away, we have them and can send them. Until then, the answer is no, we do not have the parts, no exceptions. This is how I architected this system 6 years ago and it works. While it may irritate some, sorry, but just as soon as you do this across every loco Lionel has produced since 1995 we can talk apples to apples about how you would do it differently.

RickO,

The bearings in the two locos are in fact NOT the same. We tested the bearings from the previous separate sale Berk releases and while they work, they do not work as well as the ones used in this production run, hence the suggestion to place a drop of adhesive on the bearing and insert into the pilot casting (back to my question: when is the last time you removed the pilot axle on a scale loco?) as that is the quickest way to resolve the problem and get the loco running. When the correct parts are cataloged, we'll be happy to send them out, but not a moment sooner.

It never ceases to amaze me, folks on this forum are amazed at the speed and accuracy of Lionel service, our extensive parts catalog and inventory and speed of sending out parts, repairs.......... It is a known fact that when you have an issue or problem we do everything in our power to rise to the occasion of resolving it. Yet, any time a new product is released and a minor inconvenience arises its doom and gloom and Lionel doesn't know anything, how is it possible.........blah blah blah.

REALLY? Be realistic and stop the insanity. Give us the opportunity to do what we do, our way, based upon all the posts on this forum 95% of the time folks are very pleased. Is this the post where the 5% who are never capable of being satisfied reside? Geez.

Mike

Lionel Service just emailed that they are sending me 2 new pilot bushings. They did suggest gluing them in when I install them.

I thanked them for their good service and said while I don't like having to use Lionel Service, I do appreciate it.

Well said Mike. Thanks.

Hi Mike,

First off, I have always had great service from Lionel. And I have talked to you many times. I just e-mailed CS. What really shocked me is that I received 3 different Berkshires and each one has the same problem. Except the black Polar which also 1 half of bushing on the trailing truck. I could understand 1 engine with a problem but not all 3 different Berkshires. On my original thread I was not trying to bash Lionel at all. Because I know that Lionel will will take of care of my engines for me.

On my original thread, I just trying to let members here know as to what I had found and to see if anyone else had the same problem that I found.

Thanks Mike and I am glad you chimed in, I know how everyone is very busy this time of year.

....But now I am confused...

The old bushing is not the same, and Lionel is out of parts but parts are being sent out, and some have used the old bushing as a substitute and all is well?

Well IMHO this is a very minor issue and I will just glue them in if there is a problem.

And wait for the new parts, at least I am up and running.

The question remains though is there a "prevent check" to inspect these before they are being sent out?

I hate to see a customer unwrap a gift and there is a broken piece in his lap...

This would make a really bad day for Santa...

Mike,

With respect to your comments:

1. I have had good results with customer service regarding problems.
2. Because a car /engine/etc are obviously built to a drawing with a bill of materials, your drawing data base should have the capability to do a part number-where used lookup. Thus the CS person would be able to identify part availability using this type of cross reference.
3. Sometimes the component parts supplier do not follow the drawing specifications and you get problems
4. Consider on some part drawings to identify critical measurements be recorded on a sample basis by lot. Your incoming quality can receive this data for correlation and acceptance; even if if built outside US.
5. If you don’t already have in place, a shipping inspection criteria for the item being built by your supplier

No, Mike, I think THIS is the post.  If you haven't done so already, you should probably read it from beginning to end.  I think you will very quickly realize that there may be more than 5% of the customers experiencing some level of frustration or disappointment with what they have found when they unpacked their $1,000+ locomotive(s).  It may not be 90% like someone posted, but it sure seems to be higher than 5%.

We all know that you and Lionel will stand behind these products and make them right: you have built up an outstanding reputation!  However, for you to say "be realistic and stop the insanity" is IMO a very cold response to people venting after shelling out very good money (yes, $1000 is a lot of money) to purchase Lionel's products and receiving ones that are less than perfect.  It is perplexing to me that you of all people can trivialize their disappointment like that! 

These engines simply should not have made it to the dealers, distributors and ultimately, the customers, without Lionel knowing there were obvious broken parts laying at the bottom of "X%" (you can fill in the #) of the boxes.  A random inspection of a number of engines at Lionel prior to shipping and you could have been ahead of this one, Mike.  Instead, it seems you may have gotten so frustrated reading these Forum posts that you felt the need to take a shot at your own customers.

Your very thorough and detailed reply to this thread was outstanding up until the last two paragraphs that I copied and pasted above.  You're the Lionel employee here, Mike, and should stay above the fray.  Two wrongs certainly don't make a right.  A little bit of compassion at the end of your post would have gone a long way!

John,

I understood it as a band aide solution until the new parts come in.

Yesterday, I sent an email to Lionel Customer Service explaining that I had a missing bushing in the pilot truck and a broken one in the trailing truck.  Within six hours, I received a communication from Phil Hull.  He assured me that if I effected the bushing repair, it would not void the warranty.  First thing this morning, I received notification from Meghan at Customer Service letting me know that my replacement parts were being shipped out.  I would say the stock numbers provided are of the new parts for our Berkshires.

  In my opinion, you would find it extremely difficult to top Lionel's Customer Service.   Lionel's Customer Service is right up there with the likes of LL Bean.

As any one who has served  or is serving in our armed forces know, Military people are trained to get the job done and persevere against all odds.  We and Lionel are fortunate to have the caliber of Mike Reagan in our corner.

Chris Cook

The problem with making statements like these is that we are not hearing from all the people who received Berks with no problems.  Since people tend not to comment on their lack of problems, how can you come to any kind of accurate assessment at to what percentage of the product was defective?

Andy

Here is another simple fix.  Why not move the ground strap over the axle rather than under?  That would keep the axle from falling out and keep the bearings in place.  You glue then to the frame too I suppose.  Either way this whole tantrum over this engine is a tempest in a teapot.   Mike is right on.  This forum is overrun with whiners and haters. 

despite all this hoo-rah, i may still get one (if i can find one and if i can sell my old one).

I agree Mike Regan Is the best thing to happen to Lionel in many years.  There are two ways from stopping or at lest reduce this type of thing from occurring. On site daily inspection wherever they are built and or everyone return each and every defective product to Lionel/MTH for repair. Eventually they will change because because its more cost effective to do so. Things falling off when taking it out of the box is why I quit buying for about 7 years.. Legacy lured me back in.

Andy, your statement is quite obvious...and very true.  Of course I can't put a hard number on the percentage of defective engines, but neither can, or should, Mike at this early point of "discovery"!  If you read my post again you will see that I never mentioned a %, and I even put an "X" in the one sentence when I referenced the # of defective engines.   

Regardless, it doesn't really matter what the percentage is.  Mike very well may be (heck, he is!!) the best thing that's happened to Lionel.  However, no representative of Lionel should ever take shots at ANY of his company's customers on a public Forum.  That is simply unprofessional. 

And before anyone says "yeah but what about all the people posting here on a public forum regarding their disappointment/unhappiness and "taking shots" at Lionel", that's the business world folks.  The customers can and will always do that.  It's up to the company to remain above it.

Further, I believe we should always try to take some good out of these types of publicly-aired issues.  In this case, maybe Lionel will walk away realizing that they could/should review their QC process.  Maybe even implement an extra random inspection step in NC before shipping higher-end and/or BTO products to their dealers/distributors.

Regardless, it doesn't really matter what the percentage is.  A representative of Lionel should not be taking shots at ANYof his company's customers on a public Forum, period!

I did not perceive Mike's comments to be a shot at the customers.  I took it as a plea for patience (and sanity) so that the company could make the situation better.  I appreciate candor and I am tired of people that don't have the spine to tell it like it is and those that don't have the sack to be told how it really is.  To me the hand wringing and complaining about this pilot axle on this forum was insane.  The only flaw with Mike's post was his rationale that he could reason with the insane.  Asking whatever percent of Berk customers that were effected for patience was probably pointless but very likely cathartic.  BTW, the bearings and pilot axle on my 1225 were fine, but I did move the ground strap just in case.

 "Give us the opportunity to do what we do, our way, based upon all the posts on this forum 95% of the time folks are very pleased."

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, T4TT.  Making a public statement that 5% of your customers are never capable of being satisfied (even if you believe it to be true), is taking a shot...and cannot be confused with a plea for patience.

I, too, appreciate candor and that's why I'm chiming in on this issue.  Everyone should be prepared to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.  I know how well Mike is revered, and believe it or not, I actually feel the same way about him and the job he's done since coming to Lionel.  However, we still need to have the spine to let him know loud and clear when he and/or his company messes up.  It doesn't need to be all hugs and kisses all the time!

That being said, I'm glad to hear that your engine was not defective out of the box and I'm sure your fix suggestion will be much appreciated.  That is what makes this Forum so great!

I found the problem with my engines this past Saturday night, outside of Lionel's normal hours of operation. And yesterday I was so busy I did not have a chance to do anything. I just contacted Lionel's CS by e-mail this morning after I had read Mike's response.

They are already sending me 6 new front bearings for my 3 engines. They don't do have the information for the rear truck bearing yet so they will be sending it out as soon as get the information on that part.

I asked them for 6 bearings to replace even the ones that still on the trucks, since I told them that I can not trust the ones that are still on the pilot truck. So they are sending me the 6 bearings.

Many thanks to Mike & Lionel for your quick response.

Received 2 defective 990's (out of 2 purchased) a few years back, first having weird characters. Neither the original nor the second charger worked, and receiving a bad 993 two weeks ago, as we wanted to add a second remote, I'd say Lionel QC is in serious need of revamping. Purchased our only Legacy Steam engines, two new ones, one had a bad tender out of the box with intermittent sound. Reading the horror stories here we simply returned it. All items came from different vendors, in trying to spread our $.

Joe, it's wrong of you to call out Mike.  It is not his fault this happened, and he didn't "mess things up".  Calling out the corporation I could understand.  But let's be real here... things can and DO go wrong when you manufacture a complex product.  XXXX happens.  Further, a corporation's response to adversity is the true mark of a fine brand and their leadership.  Lionel is shipping parts to correct the issue for free... as in on their dime.  My notification came less than 12 hours after I got my Berk.  THAT is fine service.

joeyA I appreciate your response.  I have been there, brand new engine with a broken something and it stinks!  I have learned that there are a multitude of factors that can interact to create a brand new broken ____________.   In my short time in the hobby I have learned that Mike Regan genuinely wants to get it right.  Granted that knowledge does not fix my broken ___________ but I can rest assured that it will be made right. Yes these are VERY expensive toys and in a perfect world they would be perfect out of the box.  Complaining about it and asking for a full refund does not "punish" Lionel, it would just deprive me of the toy I wanted.  I buy and play with trains to have fun!  I don't let any delay in playing with my toys as a result from a brand new broken _______ dampen that fun.  That is just my $.02.

And yes for all the whining on this forum there are enough helpful posts to keep me coming back.  

Minor inconvenience?  You pay $1000 for an engine, it arrives with this issue, you cannot run it, and THAT is a minor inconvenience???  For this kind of money you expect it to run right out of the box.  You paid for a fully assembled engine, not one that you have to do final assembly on.  Guess I will have to think twice about any future purchases of Lionel product.....

Your obviously not reading the full post. You can run it! You just need to glue the bushing in.

This statement didn't strike me that way at all. Taking a shot? Mike's just letting everyone know what they deal with at Lionel so Forumites can better understand the situation and have a sense of the reality of handling customer service from their end. I'm glad he made the statement, and appreciate his willingness to share his views and the information he has. 

(Frankly, I'm surprised it's only 5% , but that's another story.)

I think every business is affected by the fact there are those are never satisfied, and those who just like to complain, even when satisfied... and those that will seek to complain, and be annoying to try and get special service, or discounts... or those that will trash talk others for brand loyalty. Seems to me, it didn't happen here. The "always disgruntled customer" has been a part of management meeting/orientation discussions for more than one business I was with. While in general you avoid it, but unpleasant conversation will exist, and normal protocol must sometimes be abandoned when under attack. Mikes five percent seemed to me to elude to an off hand guestimate, or relayed info on a post he hadn't seen, but heard about. A guess, but it is based in fact. If that little quip offends you, I can take a stab at which percentage you might belong to. "Customers are always right..but only when they aren't wrong"   

 Having done way more good, than harm, I think Mike just deserves praise.

 Your automotive dealer might have said stop driving it, and tried to weasel out of the repair without a govt. recall .(or was that MPC)

But...broken new in the box isn't exactly rare, is very disappointing, and does at least seem to sometimes exceed production norms in comparison to other everyday life purchases(except cars), or other trains from our past. Those comparisons will not cease, despite the present production realities. Wish I knew the right answer, I don't. Good luck with dealing with that mess Mike, I don't envy you there.    

If you re-read all of my posts in this thread, you will see that I gave Mike full credit for his thorough explanation of the process, and his plan to fix this issue.  I also praised him for the job he has done at Lionel, and I never once blamed him personally for the broken bushings issue itself.  All I said was that a random inspection of some of these high-end engines at Lionel just may have prevented them from being shipped in this condition.

However, I stand firm in my belief that an upper-level executive from any corporation--even a relatively small, TOY train company--is dead wrong to call out a portion of said company's customers as "never capable of being satisfied" in a public setting.  Sure, he may think that, but he shouldn't say it!!  I'm sorry guys, but Mike being a great guy doesn't mean he's immune from 1.) saying something unprofessional, and 2.) being called out for it. 

Mike nor anyone else at Lionel should ever discredit or belittle the feelings of those customers who choose to vent about finding something broken on their brand-new $1,000 "toy".  That's shows a complete lack of respect for these paying customers.  Just like the customers who choose not to vent, I'm pretty sure the money that these so-called "never satisfied" shell out for these products counts just the same in Lionel's cash register...and helps to pay his salary, too.

Besides, although I've never met him in person, from everything I've heard about him, Big Mike doesn't need anyone to defend him.   I'm confident he can handle himself!

I've made my point.  No more dead horses to beat.  I still like Mike...and Lionel.  And I still love this Forum.  Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!!