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So MTH has made this particular engine but made it in plastic.  https://mthtrains.com/20-21056-1

I would love this to be made as a Legacy Engine in Die-Cast! Think Lionel will ever give it a shot? The MTH M1 is almost 40" long so it would be a massive engine! Personally I just have not been able to get over a plastic engine, I love the metal stuff! Maybe someday I will like plastic Engines and the MTH M1 almost does it for me just not quite. Anyone else ever have that problem?

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Those engines are cool as heck! I can't imagine the weight in die cast but I would like to see what Lionel can do with it. I also can't really picture a locomotive 40" long. I've never owned anything that big.

I hope the turbine sounds wouldn't be too irritating. That's the only negative that comes to mind. My experience with them is the whirring makes my jaw tight haha but maybe this one sounded different. I know of the M1 but I don't know a darn thing about the M1.

@BillYo414 posted:

No real gain! I could replace my pick up truck with this train for hauling mulch and stuff if it was all die-cast think of the pulling power!

Just the locomotive of the plastic MTH model is 8 1/2 pounds.  With only two Mabuchi 3xx motors, there is a point of diminishing returns between the motor power, the ability of the traction tires to stay on the wheels, and pulling power.  I pulled my 50+ tank car consist around my mainline, including the 2.5% grade with this one without breaking a sweat.  IMO, it doesn't need any more pulling power or the addition of hundreds of dollars for a diecast shell.  YMMV

gunrunnerjohn your picture makes me just want it even more! Looks very nice! I don't own anything MTH and would have to run it on a Lionel layout if I did. I currently have a O-72 FasTrack layout with a ZW-L transformer. Maybe if I see the thing in person it might change my aversion to plastic engines. I just love that when I hold the engine it really feels like you have ahold of something...I can't be alone here with the whole Die-Cast vs Plastic here...

Last edited by TheGrayGhost

I just love that when I hold the engine it really feels like you have ahold of something...I can't be alone here with the whole Die-Cast vs Plastic here...

I mean I like heavy engines too but I think the point being made is that sometimes it's not necessary.

If I can get a die-cast engine, I would prefer a die-cast engine. But weighing in at 8 1/2 pounds means a die-cast engine is not necessary. It'll already feel like you got something in your hands.

Anyway, I don't keep tight tabs on what MTH tooling was bought be Lionel so don't beat on me for asking: any chance Lionel scooped this tooling up?

Nobody knows exactly what tooling Lionel acquired.  My sense is this is not a high enough volume item for them to have jumped on, but that's obviously just speculation on my part.  I think Lionel would be looking for something that they can ship in volume to maximize the return on investment for the tooling.

OTOH, it is a cool locomotive, and I'd certainly like to see one with Legacy electronics.

Nobody knows exactly what tooling Lionel acquired.  My sense is this is not a high enough volume item for them to have jumped on, but that's obviously just speculation on my part.  I think Lionel would be looking for something that they can ship in volume to maximize the return on investment for the tooling.

OTOH, it is a cool locomotive, and I'd certainly like to see one with Legacy electronics.

Now that MTH is using the unsold F unit tooling to produce product for sale if they still own this it is really just diesel trucks under a steam shroud right?

@Lou1985 posted:

If you really want one with TMCC/Legacy your best bet is to find a PS1 version and just convert it.

True! I bet you just drove the price up:-)

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