Lionel E6 bs MTH E6

mth nose is more pointed and windshield smaller but slant of nose is very close

Thank you. Would you have pics of both Lionel E6 and MTH E6? 

i can try to take one with my phone and post it here

let see if this works mth is the acl     lionel is the southern

Pictures of actual E6 A units shows a slight crease/edge on the very front, closer to MTH's nose.

Thanks for the photos Doug!
So in your opinion would you say that the MTH has a more aggressive front nose in comparison to the Lionell?

i recall reading that the MTH is longer than the Lionel. 

There are a few vendors who still have remaining AA units of Lionel E6’s. I’m just trying to determine whether the price is warranted to purchase a Lionel over an MTH. Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge and experience.

yes the mth is more sharp pointed but both a very good units and glad i could help

Does any one have an MTH E6 and Lionel E6 and can snap a photo side by side to see the difference in the angle of their front nose? 

thank you all

@awp34 posted:

Thanks for the photos Doug!
So in your opinion would you say that the MTH has a more aggressive front nose in comparison to the Lionell?

i recall reading that the MTH is longer than the Lionel.

There are a few vendors who still have remaining AA units of Lionel E6’s. I’m just trying to determine whether the price is warranted to purchase a Lionel over an MTH. Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge and experience.

The MTH E6 diesel is noticeably longer than the Lionel E6 diesel.  The MTH E6 is full scale length.  The Lionel E6 is too short for scale.  Also, MTH made E6 B units, Lionel did not.

@Jtrain posted:

The MTH E6 diesel is noticeably longer than the Lionel E6 diesel.  The MTH E6 is full scale length.  The Lionel E6 is too short for scale.  Also, MTH made E6 B units, Lionel did not.

Now that is interesting. The Lionel E6 measures in at 17.5 inches and the Sunset 3rd Rail comes in at slightly less at 17 3/8. If the MTH is "noticeably longer" than we have some mis-information going on here.

At scale, the prototype is listed at 70 feet 4 inches over coupler faces. That comes to @ 17.6 inches if I did my calculations correctly.

I'm thinking the MTH must be oversized for scale, thus not making it true scale. Unless both the Lionel and the Sunset 3rd are undersized.

Charlie

@Charlie posted:

Now that is interesting. The Lionel E6 measures in at 17.5 inches and the Sunset 3rd Rail comes in at slightly less at 17 3/8. If the MTH is "noticeably longer" than we have some mis-information going on here.

At scale, the prototype is listed at 70 feet 4 inches over coupler faces. That comes to @ 17.6 inches if I did my calculations correctly.

I'm thinking the MTH must be oversized for scale, thus not making it true scale. Unless both the Lionel and the Sunset 3rd are undersized.

Charlie

Sorry Charlie,

You must be including the lobster claw in your Lionel measurement.  We need an apples to apples comparison to the prototype.  The Lionel is too short.  The MTH is spot on.

@Jtrain posted:

Sorry Charlie,

You must be including the lobster claw in your Lionel measurement.  We need an apples to apples comparison to the prototype.  The Lionel is too short.  The MTH is spot on.

In addition, MTH usually got the paint schemes right on these.  Lionel has had a lot of misses, like the recent Atlantic Coast Line E6 A-A set.  I preordered that one but sold it off since the paint scheme was so wrong.  It had a black roof and purple ends.  I wanted it for the as-delivered "The Champion" lettering on the nose.  But that version should have a purple roof and silver ends.  It seemed like Lionel was being lazy and just slapped "The Champion" lettering on their earlier release from years prior, which was correctly painted (mostly, it had incorrect black ends) for the later version with the black roof. For $900-$1,000, we should expect better.

@Jtrain posted:

Sorry Charlie,

You must be including the lobster claw in your Lionel measurement.  We need an apples to apples comparison to the prototype.  The Lionel is too short.  The MTH is spot on.

Not sure what a lobster claw has to do with this topic, but ok.

Here is the length comparison of the two units I have.

Again, what is the measurements you have that make the MTH unit longer?

Not trying to start a debate, but something does not add up and the OP deserves a accurate answer.

Charlie

@Charlie posted:

Not sure what a lobster claw has to do with this topic, but ok.

Here is the length comparison of the two units I have.

Again, what is the measurements you have that make the MTH unit longer?

Not trying to start a debate, but something does not add up and the OP deserves a accurate answer.

Charlie

You quoted a coupler face measurement for the prototype, hence the lobster claw factor on the model.  I am not sure what your photo shows, is it a Lionel and a 3rd Rail?  The 3rd Rail model might be too short too, I have not measured one.

There was a discussion about the Lionel vs. MTH relative length on another forum a few years ago.  The conclusion was that the Lionel was too short, as the original poster indicated.

There is a similar issue with the Williams E7, which is about 0.5 inches too short for scale.

@Jtrain posted:

You quoted a coupler face measurement for the prototype, hence the lobster claw factor on the model.  I am not sure what your photo shows, is it a Lionel and a 3rd Rail?  The 3rd Rail model might be too short too, I have not measured one.

There was a discussion about the Lionel vs. MTH relative length on another forum a few years ago.  The conclusion was that the Lionel was too short, as the original poster indicated.

There is a similar issue with the Williams E7, which is about 0.5 inches too short for scale.

Measuring from coupler face to coupler face is pretty much the standard way to measure. I was just making sure your measurements were being made the same way.

The two locomotives above show the slight difference in length and you stated the MTH was "noticeably longer". I just want to know the measurements because I have the Lionel and 3rd Rail measurements. All I'm saying is that if the MTH is longer, then it is not scale.

Thanks for the info.

Charlie

@Charlie posted:

Measuring from coupler face to coupler face is pretty much the standard way to measure. I was just making sure your measurements were being made the same way.

The two locomotives above show the slight difference in length and you stated the MTH was "noticeably longer". I just want to know the measurements because I have the Lionel and 3rd Rail measurements. All I'm saying is that if the MTH is longer, then it is not scale.

Thanks for the info.

Charlie

Well, as I said and as the original poster indicated, the Lionel is shorter than the MTH model.  When you measure the Lionel model with a scale coupler, you will confirm that it is short of scale.  The MTH model is the correct scale length.  This issue was covered at length in another thread a couple of years ago.  I have several of the Lionel models and they are nice models, at least the ones where they got the paint scheme correct, they are just a little short of scale.

@Jtrain posted:

Well, as I said and as the original poster indicated, the Lionel is shorter than the MTH model.  When you measure the Lionel model with a scale coupler, you will confirm that it is short of scale.  The MTH model is the correct scale length.  This issue was covered at length in another thread a couple of years ago.  I have several of the Lionel models and they are nice models, at least the ones where they got the paint scheme correct, they are just a little short of scale.

By the way, you can also see from your photo that the nose on the Lionel model is not shaped correctly, another minor detail, but not as bad as the noses on the Lionel E7 and E8.

Also, it looks like your photo shows the Lionel Illinois Central Panama Limited model.  MTH offered that paint scheme in an ABA set.  Of course, Lionel only offered A units. While the IC did not have E6 B units, they did have E7 B units in that paint scheme, and E6 and E7 B units are virtually identical externally.  It is nice to be able to run an ABA E6/E7 set, which is how the prototype was typically run in the early postwar years.

@Jtrain posted:

By the way, you can also see from your photo that the nose on the Lionel model is not shaped correctly, another minor detail, but not as bad as the noses on the Lionel E7 and E8.

Also, it looks like your photo shows the Lionel Illinois Central Panama Limited model.  MTH offered that paint scheme in an ABA set.  Of course, Lionel only offered A units. While the IC did not have E6 B units, they did have E7 B units in that paint scheme, and E6 and E7 B units are virtually identical externally.  It is nice to be able to run an ABA E6/E7 set, which is how the prototype was run in the early postwar years.

Yes, the Lionel is the Panama Limited. I would have ordered the 3rd rail version, but what was shown for pre-order at the time was the later paint scheme and I wanted the Panama Limited as delivered scheme. What a surprise to me when 3rd Rail delivered theirs in the Panama scheme.

I have zero interest in a B unit for the IC as when the cars that I want are made and delivered a B unit was not used. I do agree on the nose on the Lionel version, a bit pointy. Truth be told, the 3rd rail nose contours come the closest, Lionel and MTH are not correct and have errors in different areas. Its a model train, they all have compromises, we each just have to pick what we are willing to give up.

As for the length, the Lionel is already at 17.5 so anything longer is oversize. I can live with a little, but when you stated ""noticeably longer" I had to check. I'm hoping you really mean a very little longer. It's funny that I don't recall any conversation on the 3rd Rail being too short unless I missed it.

Now, I just need some close to correct cars to pull with these engines. Nothing from 3rd Rail, MTH or Lionel in this area.

Charlie

@Charlie posted:

Yes, the Lionel is the Panama Limited. I would have ordered the 3rd rail version, but what was shown for pre-order at the time was the later paint scheme and I wanted the Panama Limited as delivered scheme. What a surprise to me when 3rd Rail delivered theirs in the Panama scheme.

I have zero interest in a B unit for the IC as when the cars that I want are made and delivered a B unit was not used. I do agree on the nose on the Lionel version, a bit pointy. Truth be told, the 3rd rail nose contours come the closest, Lionel and MTH are not correct and have errors in different areas. Its a model train, they all have compromises, we each just have to pick what we are willing to give up.

As for the length, the Lionel is already at 17.5 so anything longer is oversize. I can live with a little, but when you stated ""noticeably longer" I had to check. I'm hoping you really mean a very little longer. It's funny that I don't recall any conversation on the 3rd Rail being too short unless I missed it.

Now, I just need some close to correct cars to pull with these engines. Nothing from 3rd Rail, MTH or Lionel in this area.

Charlie

You just don't seem to get it.  You need to measure the Lionel with a scale coupler.  Obviously, the extra long lobster claw adds to the length.  It is not a bad model, I have several, it is just a little short of scale.  We are talking about 1-2 scale feet.  Not a big deal for an O scale model.

The MTH E6 dimensions match the Overland brass E6 models I have.  The Lionel model is a little shorter.  That does not mean that you can't enjoy it.

The E7 B units were used on the Panama Limited from around 1946-47 and later, as I recall from the literature.