Lionel F3's 6-14592 and F7's 6-24584, Request for Comments/Discussion

While I cannot comment on that exact set, I do own a set of the f7's Lionel released a couple years after these and I believe thay are based on the same tooling more or less outside of the f3 vs f7 differences as they relate to the prototype.They have a decent amount of seperately applied details especially on the trucks, something Lionel has seemed to stray from as of late. While these locos have single axle drive trucks mine pulls the A and B units as well as numerous rolling stock great with the diecast fuel tanks and traction tires. I believe the f3's advertise magna traction as well. IMO these f units have more of a quality feel and with the diecast tanks have a good deal of heft to them over say the new legacy gp7 four axle diesels.Sounds are great, and these diesels run just as smooth as my legacy diesels, though for me I would recommend the f7's as they have 8 rpm levels much like legacy, as opposed to the 4 rpm levels in the f3's released earlier. Either way if you get some lionel f-units a needle filler for the smoke unit is a must. Lionel didn't put alot of thought into filling these smoke units and often the funnel doesn't perfectly alighn with the stack whch is already small to begin with, and if you fill it with an eyedropper it impossible not to make a mess. I normally shine a light down there and make sure the needle is in the funnel outlet.

I don't have this set either but have the SF set from the same year (2005). Mine have all axles powered. It pulls the the dummy AB as well as 7 18" aluminum cars OK. I also have a powered B to ease the load for extended running.
The sounds are Railsounds 4 and frankly disappointing even for RS4.
Detail is excellent as has been pointed out but there is 3/4" between engine diaphragms detracting from the scale image. I plan to address that soon.

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
there is 3/4" between engine diaphragms detracting from the scale image. I plan to address that soon.

Pete

FWIW the f7's diaphram gap is just barely 5/16 of an inch.

Rick and Pete,

Thank you! So F7's it shall be then!

Is there an easy way to tighten the spacing between the F3s?

quote:

Originally posted by Professor Chaos:
Is there an easy way to tighten the spacing between the F3s?

I don't see any easy way. The couplers will have to be removed and replaced which involves removing the trucks from the frames. I am leaning towards replacing them with Kadees but am waiting for the newer scale couplers to be released.

Pete

Been on my layout for months, definitely one of my favs. Great detail, love the chicken wire vs grill panels on the F7. DGLE is way too light, but that's a Lionel thing. The powered A is very, very powerful! Cruise compensation is awesome- try holding the engine back while she's crawling, might take your fingers off! Speed transitions are a bit rough, but once locked in- steady as a Chevy! If you love the F's, this one is a must!

Lionel made three runs of these engines, cab no. 16 (the first, had a few problems with details like light placement too close to number boards which could melt through), then the cab no. 18 set (which corrected all earlier problems), then finally the cab no. 19 set, the one you're referencing. Subsequently, they did the F-7s. I have the the cab no. 19 F-3 set. Nice looking, with a very high level of detail. They also did an even later set of these SF F-3s, but these are conventionally controlled versions. Powered B units were also made.

As previously noted, there is some space between the units. Lionel did change this afterwards, making it somewhat tighter. However, it seems to me I remember reading somewhere that one difference between the F-3s and F-7s was that F-7s rode a bit higher on their trucks than did the F-3s, which is the reason I got the F-3s. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Professor Chaos:
Is there an easy way to tighten the spacing between the F3s?

I don't see any easy way. The couplers will have to be removed and replaced which involves removing the trucks from the frames. Pete

Actually, I don't think the trucks have to be removed at all. Looking at my set of F-3s, there are directly accessable screws behind the trucks holding on the coupler assemblies. Looks relatively easy to rig up some shorter couplers. Actually, it might only be necessary to put shorter couplers on the B unit to snug all the units up.

Heres a photo of my Lionel 6-24589 ATSF F-7's, not the greatest but you can make out some of the seperately applied detail on the pilot,nose, and trucks.Low speed operation,and sound is on par with legacy,8 rpm levels as I said earlier. The diecast fuel tank where the speaker resides makes the sound nice and full like the atlas units recently released.

I mentioned above that I'd heard the F-7s rode a bit higher than the F-3s. Indeed, looking at my F-3s, the gap between the pilot and the shell is a bit smaller than the gap shown in Rick O's F-7 photo.

quote:

Originally posted by breezinup:
I mentioned above that I'd heard the F-7s rode a bit higher than the F-3s. Indeed, looking at my F-3s, the gap between the pilot and the shell is a bit smaller than the gap shown in Rick O's F-7 photo.

So then its truck gap versus daiphragm gap

I ordered a set of the Lionel TMCC PRR F7's. RickO mentioned that the sounds are on par with the Legacy versions. What is different on the Legacy version vs. the most recent TMCC version before the Legacy?

The biggest differences I believe would be a quillable horn, with tmcc you get a varible horn which is a close second, cab lights that turn off when the loco departs, and smoke in all three units as opposed to just the two A's. While the tmcc B unit lacks smoke, it does have a reverse light and rear electrocoupler in case you felt like dropping the nonpowered A and just running an AB setup. Tmcc slow speed is just a "tick" higher than legacy,but will still creep along smoothly

I received my Lionel TMCC PRR F7's (6-24584). A few issues not surprisingly, but nothing I can't take care of I believe (a short somewhere near the potentiometer, busted eletrocoupler).

I have a couple of questions though.

The smoke units are not controllable via TMCC, just via on/off switch on bottom of the A units. Is that correct? Also, the smoke units do not run constantly, but cycle off and on, e.g., on for one second off for one second, etc. Is that correct?

Short of repainting, does anyone have any tricks for darkening the color? As stated above, the green is way too light for DGLE. Shoe polish?

I'm powering my ABA consist with a Z4K set at 16V. These (mine) need a minimum 16V for smooth operation. I run most of my engines in the 10-12V range for a number of reasons, particularly so I don't get excessive smoke. At 16V, the smoke is turned off. What is cool is the lead A leaks a fog-like amount over the roof, while the dummy A spuratically puffs, which is a great effect. It's an anomoly, but it's real cool. I think these engines have their own unique personalities. I'm not comfortable weathering, but I don't like the green! Shoe polish? Sounds interesting.

Stack

Thanks Stack. I got the smoke unit to respond to tmcc commands correctly for a few minutes, then it would not shut off. I did the features reset and same, it would repond then not. Honestly, since it seems you can't turn smoke volume down, I probably wont ise the smoke on these anyway, so I've just switched the smoke unit switch to off.

Smoke volume is not adjustable,but you should be able to turn it off and on via the remote AUX1-9 turns them on AUX1-8 turns them off. Do you have the owners manual for these?,its in there. Both the nonpowered B and A unit need to be programmed as well as the powered unit for the consist to work correctly.I'm not sure how legacy should be set up for tmcc locos to function properly. I know with mine f-units it took a minute to correctly program them as a "lashup" but once programmed correctly the respond well independently via ENG cab# or as a "lashup" TR whatever. BTW saw the GP7 your looking for in an Eastside Trains ad.