Lionel GP-9 and Gp-9 super bass unit smoke issues

@Marc C posted:

Has anyone else experienced (or maybe Lionel is aware) that the newly released GP9 Legacy and Super bass unit, struggle to output smoke? Not sure if its the very narrow funnel that feeds into the smoke unit, or if the 10 drops of smoke fluid just aren't making it to the reservoir? I'm used to Lionel's smoke units outputting too much smoke , but these units struggle and I don't want to burn out the smoke unit if its not reaching the reservoir. Any help is appreciated.

Marc

Marc, I had a similar issue with my Lionel Alco S2 I purchased a few months ago. The offset funnel design is the problem. I found the fluid had trouble flowing thru the offset funnel into the smoke unit. The little fluid left in the funnel would prevent a nice flow of smoke. A forum member mentioned to very slowly let the fluid pass the funnel. When I first got the engine, I added fluid like I had with my other engines and found it escaped thru the gasket and all over the inside of the shell. I finally gave up and no longer run smoke on that engine. Here’s a picture from the Lionel parts site of the offset funnel from the GP9. IMO, with the lack of space, I don’t think there’s enough angle on the base of the funnel.

Gene

@Genemed posted:

Marc, I had a similar issue with my Lionel Alco S2 I purchased a few months ago. The offset funnel design is the problem. I found the fluid had trouble flowing thru the offset funnel into the smoke unit. The little fluid left in the funnel would prevent a nice flow of smoke. A forum member mentioned to very slowly let the fluid pass the funnel. When I first got the engine, I added fluid like I had with my other engines and found it escaped thru the gasket and all over the inside of the shell. I finally gave up and no longer run smoke on that engine. Here’s a picture from the Lionel parts site of the offset funnel from the GP9. IMO, with the lack of space, I don’t think there’s enough angle on the base of the funnel.

Gene

Gene, thank you the reply and pictures. After I posted my question I took the engine's shells off and what you describe is exactly the issue these engines are having. I was able to remove the small plastic cover on the funnel that comes spot glued and noticed when putting smoke fluid into the funnel, it just pools up and doesn't allow the fluid to seep into the reservoir. Your explanation is exactly what is happening. There is not enough angle to allow the smoke to drop into the res. and too much smoke fluid will eventually leak out and get all over. When I fill the res with smoke fluid directly it smokes like expected, but I certainly am not going to pull the shell off every time I want to add smoke fluid. I'm one of the guys that love the smoke feature and needless to say, I'm a bit disappointed.  Especially after purchasing all three in one fell swoop. Ouch. Maybe I can rig up something that will allow the fluid to get in the res, but it's unlikely. Thanks again for the reply.

Marc

@Marc C posted:

Gene, thank you the reply and pictures. After I posted my question I took the engine's shells off and what you describe is exactly the issue these engines are having. I was able to remove the small plastic cover on the funnel that comes spot glued and noticed when putting smoke fluid into the funnel, it just pools up and doesn't allow the fluid to seep into the reservoir. Your explanation is exactly what is happening. There is not enough angle to allow the smoke to drop into the res. and too much smoke fluid will eventually leak out and get all over. When I fill the res with smoke fluid directly it smokes like expected, but I certainly am not going to pull the shell off every time I want to add smoke fluid. I'm one of the guys that love the smoke feature and needless to say, I'm a bit disappointed.  Especially after purchasing all three in one fell swoop. Ouch. Maybe I can rig up something that will allow the fluid to get in the res, but it's unlikely. Thanks again for the reply.

Marc

You’re welcome Marc. I’m looking to add a UP engine to my roster and reluctant to get the GP9 with the chance of this happening unless I’m willing to switch another smoke unit off.
Maybe someone will chime in with a better solution.

Gene

@Genemed posted:

You’re welcome Marc. I’m looking to add a UP engine to my roster and reluctant to get the GP9 with the chance of this happening unless I’m willing to switch another smoke unit off.
Maybe someone will chime in with a better solution.

Gene

Yeah, I think if I had to decide again, I'd probably pass. I mean don't get me wrong the engines run fine, look and sound great, but I'm a smoke guy, so I'd like them to work as expected.  I'd love Lionel to respond, maybe with an answer, or suggestion, but I doubt that will happen.

Ten drops of fluid in a brand new engine isn't even close!  I start a dry smoke unit with about 2/3 of a dropper of MegaSteam, that's around 35 drops.  Ten drops won't make a dent.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Ten drops of fluid in a brand new engine isn't even close!  I start a dry smoke unit with about 2/3 of a dropper of MegaSteam, that's around 35 drops.  Ten drops won't make a dent.

That's normally how I do it. I use a pipette and fill it with about 30+ drops, but in the past, when I've said that on a forum the post fills up with the opposite comments on how it's going to cause problems and ruin the engine electronics. Which in turn never answers my initial question.

Well, I've been doing that for years, and I've yet to ruin an engine.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, I've been doing that for years, and I've yet to ruin an engine.

Same here, but sometimes that triggers some folks. Know what I mean? Either way thanks for the heads up. I'm pretty convinced this is just a design flaw. If I put the smoke directly into the rez, it smokes like it should. If I put the drops though the stack it clogs up and never gets to the wick. Have any of your repairs come across this? 

For that configuration stack, I put the fluid in the hole that's nearest to the smoke unit stack opening.  Then I hold a finger over the other stack and blow in the hole I just put the smoke fluid in.  That usually solves the problem.

@Marc C posted:

Yeah, I think if I had to decide again, I'd probably pass. I mean don't get me wrong the engines run fine, look and sound great, but I'm a smoke guy, so I'd like them to work as expected.  I'd love Lionel to respond, maybe with an answer, or suggestion, but I doubt that will happen.

Marc, I did purchase the GP9 UP#312. From my understanding, the hatch above the smoke unit was removable to easily access the smoke unit, but unfortunately mine was glued on. I decided to dive in and remove the shell and very carefully pry apart the two hatches. With a small amount of glue used, it came out pretty easy. In order for the hatches to be easily removable with a snug fit, it took a bit of fine grinding and filing. I had Home Depot color match the gray to touch up the inside edges which came out perfect.
  In the first video, the smoke flow was basically nonexistent on its first run. The smoke fluid in the funnel blocked the smoke output.
  The second video shows a huge difference by removing the funnel and adding smoke fluid.
  The last video and picture shows the end result. It took a little work, but well worth it.

Happy New Year, Gene

@Genemed posted:

Marc, I did purchase the GP9 UP#312. From my understanding, the hatch above the smoke unit was removable to easily access the smoke unit, but unfortunately mine was glued on. I decided to dive in and remove the shell and very carefully pry apart the two hatches. With a small amount of glue used, it came out pretty easy. In order for the hatches to be easily removable with a snug fit, it took a bit of fine grinding and filing. I had Home Depot color match the gray to touch up the inside edges which came out perfect.
  In the first video, the smoke flow was basically nonexistent on its first run. The smoke fluid in the funnel blocked the smoke output.
  The second video shows a huge difference by removing the funnel and adding smoke fluid.
  The last video and picture shows the end result. It took a little work, but well worth it.

Happy New Year, Gene

Happy New Year Gene!

Thank you for taking the time to video reply. That's basically what I did as well. Train minds think alike   I have both road numbers of the Pennsylvania GP9 units and a super bass unit. The super base unit center top of the shell comes off easy enough to  fill the smoke fluid directly into the reservoir so problem solved there. The GP9 units are a different story as the Pennsy have the wire rail that runs across the top of the engine. I may end up sacrificing a portion of these rails to be able to remove the top and fill the smoke directly into the rez. It's a tough decision, but one I'm probably willing to make in order to use the engine feature. If OSHA sites me than so be it.    

I want to thank everyone on this thread…….Santa brought me these babies and I have yet to try the smoke feature……..forewarned is forearmed…….thank you!

Peter

@Putnam Division posted:

I want to thank everyone on this thread…….Santa brought me these babies and I have yet to try the smoke feature……..forewarned is forearmed…….thank you!

Peter

Hi Peter,

Awesome Conrail GP 9's! Let us know how your smoke works.

Mar

@Marc C posted:

Hi Peter,

Awesome Conrail GP 9's! Let us know how your smoke works.

Mar

Will do……I’ve never been a big fan of smoke/diesel exhaust at home……..I usually only turn it on if I’m displaying with my modular groups….

Will definitely report back when I do!

Peter