Tony D. posted:What operational issues are occurring from the GG-1s that show side frame bowing? derailing on O-72 curves?
They are probably all different, nut mine won't run at all. It moves less than an inch and locks up.
Admit it fellows Lionel will do nothing to fix the zinc rot so it will be up to you fix it. How it will be done is up to debate but unless somebody is willing to cover the cost of new side frames, of course a group effort would be cheaper if you could buy a good engine or if somebody would donate a good engine take the side frames off and have them recast by a shop if at all possible and if there is a shop in the U.S. who could do it.
I would also send Lionel notes of displeasure instead of posting here. But don't expect any help from Lionel.
IMO I don't think this will ever be resolved to everybody's satisfaction. If you have a good one have fun with it.
Dave
Well, the molds and masters exist. There are two different lengths, so you will need to do some measuring. Checking on pricing now -
just replacing the sideframes - as with the nice Williams fix above - is also an option - Alexander did those, too, and that could be a less expensive solution.
I would probably attempt it, but I would have to own the finished project - there is just too much labor involved to do it as a business. I think I already have four bronze and one aluminum GG1s.
Dave, FWIW, if Lionel does not have the JLC GG1 truck frame dies in there hands, there is nothing they can do. We do not know the limits of their business agreements with the regional manufacture, now or when these were made.....
Now I understand we do not know the answer to that question, do they or don't they, AND that does not absolve them from ownership...but it may be reality.
Dennis Holler posted:Dave, FWIW, if Lionel does not have the JLC GG1 truck frame dies in there hands, there is nothing they can do. We do not know the limits of their business agreements with the regional manufacture, now or when these were made.....
Now I understand we do not know the answer to that question, do they or don't they, AND that does not absolve them from ownership...but it may be reality.
We are in full agreement. I'm not suggesting they are sitting on a solution and not sharing, they very well may not have access to whatever tooling would be required. We will never know.
All driven by a very common factor that drives everything relating to the manufacturing, which I shall not delve into here so as to keep the thread on topic. But we all know what it is.
-Dave
I’m on the side of let’s find a solution, I’m not looking at this point for the finger pointing.....unfortunately, we all know it gets nowhere.....fast.....I’d be interested to learn more about two things....Bob’s looking into the new castings, and the other fella used some Williams parts (great job by the way) ....I’d like to learn more about the Willams parts as potential repair parts, and someone kindly get Bob the measurements he needs to see if his parts are feasible....let’s learn some more about possible repair paths, and come up with a solution.........Pat
Has anyone checked with North Lima Train Works for the parts?
Doug
That's funny Doug. Surely you jest. 
FWIW, I personally contacted them several months ago and they said they didn't have them, that didn't surprise me.
I have a couple of friends with bad ones, so I'm trying to help them out.
harmonyards posted:I’m on the side of let’s find a solution, I’m not looking at this point for the finger pointing.....unfortunately, we all know it gets nowhere.....fast.....I’d be interested to learn more about two things....Bob’s looking into the new castings, and the other fella used some Williams parts (great job by the way) ....I’d like to learn more about the Willams parts as potential repair parts, and someone kindly get Bob the measurements he needs to see if his parts are feasible....let’s learn some more about possible repair paths, and come up with a solution.........Pat
A most reasonable post, I think...
Mark in Oregon
gunrunnerjohn posted:Gosh, I have the same one, but so far the frame seems solid as a rock. I sure hope it doesn't start rotting away, that would be a serious bummer!
That's the one I have as well. I only noticed the issue when my silver one arrived with the truck frames broken into several pieces due to the rot. It had been sitting on a shelf looking pretty until flipped over and the problem was obvious around the screw holes.
Lionel Parts posted:I repaired my single stripe green scale GG1 by using Williams scale GG1 trucks.
A little more info on what you did would be appreciated.
I wonder if one could use sideframes from the Williams scale version...I have one that I'd be happy to sacrifice.
The good thing about this forum is, there are members willing and able to help find a solution to the unfortunate issues that come up from time to time.
The bad part, there are way too many just wanting to complain and offer nothing in the way of helpful value.
Just MHO
I also would be interested in receiving more information on how the repair made with Williams parts was accomplished and the possibility of creating new castings.
NYC 428 posted:The good thing about this forum is, there are members willing and able to help find a solution to the unfortunate issues that come up from time to time.
The bad part, there are way too many just wanting to complain and offer nothing in the way of helpful value.
Just MHO
I also would be interested in receiving more information on how the repair made with Williams parts was accomplished and the possibility of creating new castings.
Agreed, maybe this thread could actually be informative .....I think we have a low whining rate!....rare these days.....Pat
The "add sideframes" solution might be the most cost effective. But it seems like the main part also includes some provision for the lead truck.
Let's start with a photo essay of a power truck and its parts. We are sure the truck block on these things is solid? And the lead truck/pilot is ok?
rex desilets posted:Lionel Parts posted:I repaired my single stripe green scale GG1 by using Williams scale GG1 trucks.
A little more info on what you did would be appreciated.
I wonder if one could use sideframes from the Williams scale version...I have one that I'd be happy to sacrifice.
This fix will NOT work on the JLC GG-1. 
The part for the JLC GG-1 is called "Powered Truck Side Frame with Pilot" Part Number 610-8354-035 and is completely different from the Williams GG-1 Truck Side Frame. Here is exactly what the Powered Truck Side Frame with Pilot looks like courtesy of Lionel and Gun Runner John.
Chief Bob (Retired) 
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I think the Williams trucks worked, because the Williams pilot trucks were also used. That is what I see in the pics provided by Lionel Parts.
PS. If that was the case, Lionel Parts, did the Lionel Odyssey motors fit into the Williams trucks?
You have to use the complete Williams power truck assembly and the pilot truck. You also have to use sections of the Williams frame.
Tony d, yes the Lionel motors did work with the Williams trucks.
gunrunnerjohn posted:That's funny Doug. Surely you jest.
I have a couple of friends with bad ones, so I'm trying to help them out.
John, I didn't see where anyone had mentioned it and thought I'd throw it out there.I know a lot of members had written them off because of lack of communication from the previous owners.
Doug
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Hey, indeed you bought a very expensive paper weight
Okay. From the photo above credited to Lionel and gunrunner, it appears the Wolfer/Duddy castings are identical - both scaled from the real thing. There is hope - still looking at price. Lionel surely has the assets to do a volume run of these, and lots of foundries are capable here in the USA.
Once we get an idea of price, if someone wants to spring for shipping both ways, I will happily look at a complete power truck to ensure dimensional compatibility. Who knows - maybe Lionel sent a Wolfer frame to be copied?
If you need a casting foundry. I may be of some help.
trnluvr posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:That's funny Doug. Surely you jest.
I have a couple of friends with bad ones, so I'm trying to help them out.
John, I didn't see where anyone had mentioned it and thought I'd throw it out there.I know a lot of members had written them off because of lack of communication from the previous owners.
It was a good thought, and yes, I did get an answer pretty quickly, obviously the new owners are more responsive. 
With parts like this I do not know why the manufactures are not offering parts like this thru shapeways or other print on demand sites. The CAD models are already drawn, aren't they?
pingal70 posted:I have quite few. Class Actionable?
Really? Come on... what is the stated Lionel Warranty? Probably a year at most and for the most part this stuff takes a bit of time to happen...I'm not surprised the question has come up, but it's a bit of a stretch in my opinion. These GG1's were made what 10 plus years ago??
Dennis Holler posted:pingal70 posted:I have quite few. Class Actionable?
Really? Come on... what is the stated Lionel Warranty? Probably a year at most and for the most part this stuff takes a bit of time to happen...I'm not surprised the question has come up, but it's a bit of a stretch in my opinion. These GG1's were made what 10 plus years ago??
Dennis, I’m surprised no one has brought up the Lemon Law yet!....GEEEEZ LOUISE....🤫...........Pat
Well heck if that's the plan, I'll start picking up crumbled 700E's and 763E's and let me know when you get that class action worked out so I can make sure Lionel sends me all the prewar parts I need to restore those engine's....
Dennis Holler posted:Well heck if that's the plan, I'll start picking up crumbled 700E's and 763E's and let me know when you get that class action worked out so I can make sure Lionel sends me all the prewar parts I need to restore those engine's....
The commercial will be on after the late news.....from the law offices of Douie, Cheetham, & Howe...........Pat
Jdaddy - always interested in foundries that do small sand cast stuff. I currently have E7B sides at an aluminum foundry in Pennsylvania, and once they are done I will convert the patterns to A units in hopes that another Pa. foundry will do brass/bronze for me. Last job took over a year, but I am deliriously happy.
For the rest, the owner of the GG1 truck masters is also a backyard foundry, and does stunningly good work. Awaiting his price estimate. The problem is, these beauties have separate journal boxes and slack adjusters. More pieces= more expense, both at the foundry and at assembly.
And here in Calif we have a lost wax foundry ready, willing, and able. Sadly, they do not do sand, but you cannot have everything.
I post this photo too much, I guess. I am mostly a Southern Pacific steam modeler, but have symptoms of SPF - I think I have five GG1s, and need no more, ever. But when one of these seriously damaged Lionel things hits the Bay, I may capture it and use my spare brass frames. Lionel has been doing what I consider top-notch scale stuff lately, including the fantastic PA, the FEF, and the 4-12-2. The compromises for containing all that electronic stuff do not seem to seriously affect the accuracy of these models.
Enough of that - here is the photo. Two sand-cast bronze GGs, a bronze cast E7, and an aluminum Shark. All from the blacksmith era of O Scale, which is almost where I come from!
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bob2 posted:I post this photo too much, I guess. I am mostly a Southern Pacific steam modeler, but have symptoms of SPF - I think I have five GG1s, and need no more, ever. But when one of these seriously damaged Lionel things hits the Bay, I may capture it and use my spare brass frames. Lionel has been doing what I consider top-notch scale stuff lately, including the fantastic PA, the FEF, and the 4-12-2. The compromises for containing all that electronic stuff do not seem to seriously affect the accuracy of these models.
Enough of that - here is the photo. Two sand-cast bronze GGs, a bronze cast E7, and an aluminum Shark. All from the blacksmith era of O Scale, which is almost where I come from!
...never!...
Mark in Oregon
Bob2 .....any new info on the Wolfer/Duddy castings? .....much appreciate your input on these....I’d still like to have a go at a nice repair on one of these models.....thanks! ........Pat
My used JLC single stripe 4866 showed up with one truck's side frames in decent shape (straight and intact), but the other is slightly bowing with two of its smaller details cracked off and needing to be glued back on. Finding better replacements will eventually become a necessity for me, too.
Pat(HarmondYards), My JLC GG-1' s side frames are crumbled in pieces so I will send it to you in hopes that Bob2 can either see if the manufacturer of the Wolfer/Duddy castings has a set of the old brass side frames and let you work your magic at modifying them and/or get them to cast a new batch. I will certainly contribute to a set or two of the brass frames as it sounds like many others with this unfortunate issue will too. Would be nice to avoid a $600 paper weight.....
I have two friends with crumbling sideframes, so I'm interested in a solution.
I experimented with this zinc rot a few years ago with HO scale Metroliner cars that had the frames bowed. I got a piece of heavy steal and put underneath. I then got a torch and without melting the metal the bowed metal dropped to the metal flat stock. There was no distortion of the frame maybe I got lucky. What I am thinking is some of the parts that are bowed, maybe they could attempt this project and see the outcome. It may not work but if you have a bad one that really cant be used why not try it.
If this helps- there is/was a brass foundry in Meadville, Pa. that did some castings on some antique car parts for a club I belonged to. Was nice to work with & reasonable. naturally I can't remember the name.
shurlock1 posted:I experimented with this zinc rot a few years ago with HO scale Metroliner cars that had the frames bowed. I got a piece of heavy steal and put underneath. I then got a torch and without melting the metal the bowed metal dropped to the metal flat stock. There was no distortion of the frame maybe I got lucky. What I am thinking is some of the parts that are bowed, maybe they could attempt this project and see the outcome. It may not work but if you have a bad one that really cant be used why not try it.
Your case may have resulted in success for that particular instance......however, as in the case with the frames that have already crumbled apart, there isn’t a glue, or a remedy to repair the existing frames....once the process of desegregation starts, it won’t stop until it all returns to Mother Earth.....however Shurlock1 ....I do applaud your efforts for a solution......I think our best bet at the moment is to raise enough voices to stir up these Wolfer/Duddy castings and have a nice solid brass repair part that will for sure make longevity a mute issue.....if the measurements work out, I’m confident with my machine shop I can fabricate the necessary brackets to make these a bolt in swap....obviously, these brass castings will require machining to make work, but these show the best promise.....I’m all in....Chris has already contacted me in regards to his beautiful GG1(that’s now a mess) so all we need now is some parts.......Pat
I did not post as crumbled read what I wrote.
Sorry - I missed the renewed activity here. I think we need the dimension from the articulating pin to the pilot beam. There were apparently two lengths.
Bob has had some work done on his shoulder, and may be a bit slow in the foundry - but if you can get some idea of that dimension, and an estimate of the quantity, maybe we can get this project rolling.
On the Meadville foundry - I think they were the ones who did my sand cast Erie-built sides, and all I can say is - best sand castings I have ever seen! I do not know if they do investment castings.
Bob has his own foundry. I guess if you know what you are doing it is easy.
Not sure this is allowed - apologies in advance:
