Lionel Legacy #611/612 Stripe Poll!

I'm not sure what your perceived issue is.  Here's the 611 from 1981:

And here's the later #612 (1994 I think?)

Other than the fact that Lionel now has the tooling for a beefed-up die-cast tender (#746RS which was matched to the #238E repros), I think they did okay with what they had at the time.

Jon

#4 would be my choice.

That's not the locomotive Kevin's talking about. 

He's addressing a serious cosmetic issue with the latest Scale version, not a model from the last century.

Rusty

Me too; I concur.

#4    "Glad I didn't buy one"

Gilly

For informational purposes ... the loco and tender side stripes are aligned perfectly on my sample of the previously issued (2005) 'scale' 6-38095 N&W No. 611.

Bob

Haven't seen the scale ones except in catalog pictures.  He mentioned the Warhorse, so I assumed he was talking semi-scale.

Jon

I have the latest scale Legacy version, 6-11414, # 612.

Is that what you are talking about?   My loco was perfect out of the box, with everything working and paint and graphics as I expected.  I would have noticed if the strip was mis-aligned.  The only thing I didn't like about mine was that it was not Union Pacific, as i thought it would look better in gray and armour yellow, but a little paint and work to align the stripe there, too, fixed that.  

I have the most recent Legacy version.  

I have seen four other Legacy N& Js and I would recall if I saw one serious mis-aligned, but I don't recall any.   Do you have a picture of one of the mis-aligned ones?

One of those threads where a photo would have helped a lot

Kevin,

The results of the poll will be interesting, but I suggest additional options for everyone to vote on. Another option could be that: I can live with the minor defects and would purchase the passenger set if I have not done so already. To be clear, this poll refers to the 2012 Lionel Legacy Pocahontas Passenger Set. Thank you!

I guess you had to have seen this earlier thread to help clarify the point of this poll.

David

Thanks for the link. I was in the dark on this thread. It's a toy my wife would say .

After I was told by Lionel to just glue the broken bearings into the Berk pilot, I guess she's right again.

But I hate misalignment on anything.

I don't think the stripe is painted wrong.

I went to that earlier thread and studied the photos carefully, particularly the still image/profile posted by BigJim.  

I don't think the stripe is painted wrong.  I think the rear of those locos is mounted too low.  I took the photo BigJim posted and ran the red line you see below right along the stripe on the loco.  Note it slopes down across the tender.  Note also that the roof of the cab seems too low to match the tender height properly.  If it were mine, I'd just insert 1/8 inch spacers around the screws between body and chassis at the rear. Its a simple, five minute fix, I imagine, and that ought to fix it.

Gotcha, yes there does seem to be a problem. But I am th8inkng like Will, are the tender trucks too high or the rear trucks on the engine too low

Well I would try putting a washer/spacer in to raise the rear of the engine upward first...but as posted by Hotwater earlier you need to be sure that you are not raising the rear drivers off the rail head.  As for that photo that Lee has drawn the red line on...you do see that the section of track the trailing truck and tender is sitting on is slopped downward at the joint right?  That is causing the rear of the engine and the front of the tender to slope downward towards each other....in that particular photo that is.

I agree with Lee.  When I saw the pictures, it looked to me that the locomotive was slanted down slightly to the rear thus giving it a lower displacement compared to the tender.

In Lee's picture in his post, his red line shows that pretty well.

Lee's idea of inserting a small washer in the rear may raise the rear up and hopefully correct the issue.  That would be the approach I would try first, rather than a repaint.

I think the photo is slightly tilted, not the track.  Regardless, the track is perfectly straight: put a ruler along it, or another straight red line as I just did with min image here, and it shows the track is perfecty even.  The loco slops down at the back, and the cab is too low relative to the tender. I haven't taken apart the J, but I have taken apart enough Legacy steamers to know that inserting spacers at the rear to raise the dab end would not disturb the rear drivers off the rails on anhy of those.  I seriously doubt that would be an issue.   I would certainly try 1/8 inch of washer os so before doing anything else.  

I would still like to see the results of the poll, if forum members would only respond by numbers to Kevin's request. Thank you. I would also really like to know if those who have the passenger set really like the set despite the flaws or do the flaws prevent those from enjoying the set at all.

I doubt that lionel will fix the stripe. They are yours now. so either fix it yourself or not.

#1

I am not happy to pay that kind of money and get the mistakes these sets have. I am thinking of selling and getting the Sunset K2a to go along with my GGD cars. Trying to model the N&W as best as I can in 3 rail and the strip just doesn't work for me.

http://www.railpictures.net/vi...d=533353&nseq=10

The restored 611's stripe is a little off too. The Legacy 611 is correct!

I am asking a basic question, but I don't know how tenders work.   Do they sit slighty higher or lower based on how full of coal or oil they are?

I ask as I have found just as many pictures from different eras of the 611 where the tender stripe is higher than the loco as there are where it's aligned, from same angles.

Here's some examples of the unaligned I've found.

EscapeRocks,

Like you I thought the high tender stripe maybe intentional, because the tender could be lowered by a full load of coal and water compressing the springs in the tender trucks. But, look closely at the tender in my link above, its got such a full load of coal that the coal is piled on top, and visible, and the tender stripe is still high.

Two small washers solved the issue with my 612.

Makes you now wonder, what motivated all the initial criticisms of the Lionel Legacy Pocahontas set, including the passenger car windows. Someone later posted a picture of the actual passenger cars where the windows looked like the Lionel set as well. Thanks David for the pictures of the 611. Even the real trains were not perfect.

You will never convince me of that malarkey!

"Everybody knows that."

Baloney! Real passenger car windows are NOT stuck on the outside of the coach/car. 

I am glad I did not buy one because it is expensive. Rivet counting is not suppose to be in toy trains.

Hey Tim(avatar),

Don't look so sad. Smile!

Hey, that's better!

Can't really count rivets on an N&W 4-8-4 - the shroud and tender are primarily welded, not riveted, like most "top-end" streamlined steamers.

If we "count" rivets, I do not know what we do to "welds".

At least it's not as bad as this N Scale attempt. Missing some drivers too.